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The Future of Work – Creating Workplaces Where Gen Z Stay (download transcript)

Adam Lacey

Hello, and welcome to this series on unlocking Gen Z's potential. I’m Adam, co-founder of Assemble You, creators of the only learning library designed to be listened to.

This series is for people managers looking to support Gen Z in the workforce. Across five lessons, you’ll:

• Examine why Gen Z is different
• Discover how to tap into Gen Z’s strengths
• Analyse how to lead Gen Z
• Identify ways to coach Gen Z and
• Understand how to create a workplace where Gen Z thrives

We’ll debunk some common myths and ultimately support individuals in becoming confident future leaders.

I’m joined by Zavier Coyne and Patrick Quinton-Smith. Together, they run Gen Z Coach, which helps forward-thinking businesses unlock the potential of their young people through world-class coaching and training programmes.

Zavier is the world's youngest qualified intuitive psychology coach. He’s a TEDx speaker,  podcaster and entrepreneur. Patrick is a certified leadership trainer and ICF Professional Certified Coach with over 1,000 hours coaching over 200 young professionals.

Before we start, I’d just like to make clear, Gen Z is anyone born in the mid-nineties to the early 2010s.

So, Zav, what are we talking about today?

Zavier Coyne

So, today we're looking at the future of work. How we can really create spaces, workplaces, cultures where Gen Z feel like they want to stay and where they can also really grow. We'll be addressing things like quiet quitting, talking about diversity, workplace cultures and looking at training to understand the pitfalls that can also come up, what to avoid and also what to include and kind of wrapping up by looking at, well, what is the future of work kind of really looking like with this generation?

Adam Lacey

Very cool. So, well, let's kick off with the, I guess, the more obvious question which is, what kind of culture is Gen Z looking for? Is there, is there certain things that this generation is really after?

Zavier Coyne

Yeah. In terms of like cultures, we've kind of looked at their values of this generation and it's cultures that really nurture those values that is really important. So, for example, a transparent culture, one that's open, where there's kind of clear development plans that Gen Z can tap into, there's kind of clear expectations that are communicated as well, being really important.

So just as a first point, it's cultures that are transparent, that are open, that are authentic and are really creating then, through that kind of psychologically safe spaces, for this generation to come into the workplace.

Patrick Quinton-Smith

Yeah, and I think that all of what you said with that clear expectations bit is so important because young people coming into the workplace – there often is a gap between their own expectations and the expectations of other the generations. So, there's all these unwritten rules and codes and because of, say, Covid and some more hybrid working, some of those observed behaviours in workplaces aren't necessarily clear, like how to behave or what are those expectations.

So, it's really important that organisations are really explicit about the unwritten rules and what those expectations are in terms of progression, codes of conduct like everything, you know; don't leave anything unsaid because that gap in expectations can cause a lot of conflict.

Adam Lacey

So, yeah, and that's coming back to your transparency point, isn't it, Zav? I think that, you know, start with transparency and make sure that you're not assuming stuff with this generation in particular, I would say, more than others; because as we talked about before, they've not had the same level of maybe face-to-face interaction before coming into the workplace.

It's not – they may be more natural and comfortable communicating online and so yeah, actually there's almost, like, office etiquette, office onboarding type piece that I think you should think about especially with the context of Gen Z.

Zavier Coyne

Yeah. It's looking, like, through that transparency that kind of lends itself to opening up the conversation about having cultures that are community-based, that really allow people to feel like they can come together within the workplace. So that, kind of, that then ends up translating into where people, kind of, are going into workplaces and feel like they're connecting with other people.

It's no longer just as transactional as it kind of has been before. It's, kind of, you come into work and then you, kind of, switch off and step out. Like we said – that value of work-life integration, people really value having meaningful relationships in a workplace environment. So, workplace cultures that kind of nurture community, yeah, will really be able to thrive in the future of work, which we’ll obviously get into.

But, also, a point to just briefly mention, is we've touched on inclusion and diversity as well. So, this generation want to hear kind of diverse voices. It's not just about the hiring process, it's about also are they talking? Are they contributing and influencing decisions as well?

So, yeah, that links to that transparency and honesty within cultures. Not kind of just doing what the tick box would be for diversity, inclusion, wellbeing, but actually embodying it in the very fabric of the organisation.

Adam Lacey

Yeah. And you mentioned before that this generation is the, statistically, the most diverse generation that has ever been, you know, thanks to huge, huge migration between countries over the last, you know, 10, 20 years, relative period of peace and global stability and all the rest of it; though, you know, that's always, that's always in the balance, isn't it?

But, yeah, and that's really interesting because this generation is more diverse and so their expectations are very different because what they've grown up with is a more diverse set of viewpoints and also just access to the Internet and access to social media and all that kind of stuff. Growing up with access to so many more points of view and so many more, you know, access to more cultures and things that you'd have naturally grown up with 20 or 30 years ago.

So very different points of view. Have you got any advice for businesses on, I guess, the diversity side of things in terms of, you know – or any, or managers even to. kind of, take that into consideration with their teams? Be authentic I guess is one of the things you've mentioned already. Be transparent.

Zavier Coyne

Yeah, being honest about the process that you're going through. If you're trying to make your organisation more diverse, acknowledge that, like, share that you're in that growth stage, like it's okay to acknowledge where you're at as an organisation, but communicating where you want to go, like, your intention, I think is really important because then it's not about, ‘Okay, how can we get the facade up that we're diverse as quickly as possible?’

Rather, ‘Okay, we want to create a culture that is inclusive, that is diverse. We're on a journey here.’ Acknowledging that to your people is really important. Showing that intention is one of the main things, I would say. And, also, just to build on that inclusion is important of, like, we talk about impact within organisations and young people really caring about social impact.

I just want to touch on that point because it links – it's like that inclusivity and social impact points, those are closely linked in terms of how we want to have meaningful spaces and also then create meaningful impact in what we do. So, organisational cultures that do nurture volunteering opportunities, that do nurture ways that you can contribute to your community, that is really important as well.

When I worked at a major consultancy, they gave me opportunities to volunteer and paid opportunities to volunteer. It was included. A part of being there was you had to volunteer. And I loved that. It really helped me feel more connected to what the organisation's mission was. It was like, they're actually – like I said in the last episode, the difference between having a mission and being on a mission, this was a way of actually being on it, of taking action.

So, yeah, culture creating, workplace cultures that do stand for something bigger, but don't just kind of have it as a slogan or a title or, kind of, like a nice little document. But actually, it's embedded in kind of how they engage their team, in people.

Adam Lacey

So, anything else managers should be thinking about, Zav, on, you know, that they can do that? They can really impact around diversity and social impact?

Zavier Coyne

Yeah, I just want to touch on that word – diversity – in a way, actually brings me back to that. These words like diversity, wellbeing, sustainability – they've now got so many different meanings. And so sometimes we can see, ‘Well, what's the word that we mean behind diversity?’ And it links to stuff we've chatted in previous episodes of belonging.

We're essentially talking about how can we create spaces where people feel like they belong? And this generation is the most diverse generation, as you mentioned, coming through. So, it's like, how do we create spaces where they belong? So, managers can kind of actively create spaces for kind of micro-community initiatives for people to come together to feel like they belong, making space for personal expression, whether that's through dress codes or whatever it may be; there's small, obviously, things that organisations can do, but really it's, kind of, how can we nurture belonging within organisations?

And for managers specifically, what I would say is training on emotional and communicational intelligence is really important. This links to, I could say, so many different things, but they're so contextually based. Whereas having that foundational skill of emotional intelligence, being aware of what people need in this kind of diverse culture that's kind of coming in the workplace is really important. Then you can kind of take it in kind of a situational way.

So, yeah, there's a few more nuggets there.

Adam Lacey

Yeah, brilliant. I really like that. Simple things like a dress code; you know, letting people actually express themselves. I remember working, or being in places, where if you had any kind of tattoo or anything like that, it had to be covered at all times or I've, you know, worked with people who worked at businesses like that.

And then I worked for, I worked for Hard Rock Cafe for a while when I was in my early, in my kind of early 20s, and that was the complete opposite. And you felt very at home and you were, you know, the kind of, the more piercings, the more tattoos, the more, the more, I guess, expressive you were with your dress.

The kind of, the more that actually fitted the company, in the organisational culture. And there were a lot of people there, you know, that felt really at home in that environment and, and I loved that about that organisation. And so, yeah, that's a memory that I kind of carry very fondly from those days.

And they were doing exactly that through simple things like explicitly living the values of letting people be themselves. Pat, any tips that we're missing around culture? Anything you want to add to the conversation there?

Patrick Quinton-Smith

Yeah, it's a tip really around building coaching cultures. You know, this is something that Gen Z really want going into the workplace, because what a coaching culture is – we talked about in previous episodes about becoming more coach-like – they're going to be creating the type of environment that is supportive, nurturing and challenging, that helps young people to thrive and it really taps into their values of learning and growth and purpose and meaning.

By creating coaching cultures, you're giving more feedback, you're asking more questions, you're handing more responsibility and helping people think for themselves. So, in one fell swoop, you are covering so many bases to create the type of environment that young people want to be in and will thrive in. And not just young people, this is a multigenerational approach, but it's particularly one young people like need and want.

Adam Lacey

Yeah, fantastic. Like, let's move on to our kind of conversation on retention. So, I'm really keen to dig into what makes Gen Z stay at an organisation and then actually what drives them to leave. Because I feel like this will be top of mind for a lot of managers listening to this. And a bit of a goal of this session is hopefully to help more – or these sessions – is to hopefully help more people stay for longer at the organisations that they're in.

Patrick Quinton-Smith

Yeah, 100%. I think it can be helpful to look at what makes people stay and leave more generally. And a model I like to refer to is Friedrich Herzberg's Two-Factor Theory. We spoke about this in a previous episode. We've got hygiene factors and motivators. And essentially hygiene factors are the things that make people not leave in a business.

It's sort of the analogy is a rocket launch pad and a rocket. The rocket launch pad is the hygiene factors and these are things like salary, benefits, working conditions and relationships. If those things aren't there, then there's a shaky base and there's no room for growth and people will essentially leave the business because they don't enjoy what they're doing at all.

That things aren't – the basics aren't there. And then what makes, once those things are in place, those hygiene factors, what makes performance, you know, go up and helps people feel really engaged and stay in the organisations are things like achievement, growth, responsibility, job interest and that meaning and purpose. So that applies to people generally.

But what we observe, looking at the values of Gen Z and basically most people, if the motivation factors aren't there, but the hygiene factors are there, then people will kind of still stay in the job, but they might not be that happy.

Young people have much stronger boundaries. If those below factors are there, the above ones aren’t and they're not getting meaning a purpose, they're not getting recognition or growth opportunities, they're much more likely to leave that job where other generations previously might not. So, I'm kind of answering, you know, what makes them stay and what makes them leave.

But, really, there's got to be more emphasis on those motivation factors for young people because, as I said, they're less tolerant of organisations that aren't there. Their standards are higher, so to speak. So, they're kind of asking a bit more from organisations than previous generations would.

Zavier Coyne

Yeah. To link it further into Gen Z – there's a, I think Deloitte did a study last year which showed that 86% of Gen Z employees say feeling a sense of purpose makes them stay longer in a company. That's a really high percentage of a generation staying in an organisation for the sole reason – obviously, once those hygiene factors are met – because of feeling a sense of purpose.

So, yeah, can't almost emphasise that enough because obviously that is a massive value they have. But they directly come into the workplace and then to build on that even more is the people in the organisation; like building,  they said the importance of building workplace cultures doesn't just fall on the managers, it falls on everyone within the company.

And, so, it kind of links to what I said in the last, like one of the last episodes, about people not quitting companies, quitting managers. Essentially people quit people. They don't quit companies, they quit people. So, the people, the culture of the people, is just not where the values of this generation sit.

That will also have a big impact because people spend more time with their colleagues than they do with their family. So, if they're actually not getting on with them, they don't feel they belong – think back to that belonging piece – they don't feel like they're being honestly led, they don't feel like there's honest leadership and transparency. Yeah, that can really encourage this generation actually just to pack up their bags and leave.

Adam Lacey

It's really interesting because I, I feel like every generation will suffer from that. You know, if you're forced to sit next to somebody in an office who just is, you know, is just a nightmare to work with or to sit by or, you know – it saps and drains your energy daily. And I think we've probably all had roles at some point where that's been the, where that's kind of been the case.

It is really difficult. I think maybe the difference with this generation from some of the, some of the values and conversations we've had is they are more, maybe more confident to move on and not just to kind of stick something out and hope it becomes better. I feel there's an empowerment in this generation and an ability to write.

‘Okay, if this isn't right, I'm gonna change it.’ Because versus maybe some of the older generations who have in the past been more accepting of ‘this is my lot.’ You know, people don't move jobs that often, all the rest. And the world that Gen Z grew up in is, you know, was far more fluid and transient and that's reflective in their kind of attitudes and I guess, patience, tolerance around this kind of stuff.

And I don't think it's a, I don't think it's a bad thing. I think it helps organisations, it helps hold organisations to a higher standard, you know, and, yeah, I feel like it also helps flesh out very quickly where there's a problem. You know, if you've got lots of people leaving all of a sudden and yeah, it's hopefully easy to then identify.

Okay, well, there's a cultural issue here or there's a management issue here or a leadership problem and so get to the bottom of it more easily. So yeah, is that fair to say? I know I'm kind of paraphrasing a few things that we've talked about, but.

Zavier Coyne

Yeah, no, it's completely fair to say. And I think one of the words just to pick out that you said is tolerance. I think that that's a big thing. This is something that, like you say, all generations of experience, but this generation just particularly has a lower tolerance to; also because the world has become so much smaller, there is awareness of like where you can move, where you can go, what you can do.

Even if in this generation people don't necessarily know what they want to do next, they'll still just know that, ‘Okay, I'll just figure something out. Like this just isn't working.’ Which obviously is something where it links to anxiety and all these kind of other host of issues. We'll get into that in the other series.

But yeah, I really think that tolerance piece is just a lot lower. So, it's a similar problem but just lower tolerance.

Patrick Quinton-Smith

Yeah, just to build on that quickly, it's Gen Z value their mental health above, you know, most things. So, they're not prepared to sacrifice their mental health over trying to stick it out a bit longer and hoping that things will change. So, like what makes young people stay? You know, it's not necessarily the focus on mental health itself.

It's focusing on the things that contribute to positive wellbeing and motivation. So, you know those motivation factors that we just described, and particularly purpose and meaning and providing those opportunities for growth, you know, and belonging; those directly improve people's mental health and, therefore, they will stay.

Zavier Coyne

And we're looking at the word there ‘stay’, we're not talking about the word ‘thrive’ as well. So, there's a notion of importance, of acknowledging that sometimes people will stay, some of the generation will stay in an organisation where there is poor mental health. Whether not everyone has got this super low level of tolerance and some people don't feel as empowered to leave.

So, I Just want to bring that narrative into this conversation to acknowledge that there are a lot of people in this generation who are acknowledging, very aware of, like, don't want to put up with that, like that's not on, or like mental health is taking a toll, but then don't also feel empowered to leave.

So, they might still be staying a lot more than other generations will leave but some will still stay but you're definitely not getting the most out of them as well. So, we've got the leave, then the stay, then the thrive. And we're obviously trying to look from that piece of, like, just about surviving to thriving as an organisation in a sense.

So, I just want to bring that narrative in there because there are people who struggle in their role and do feel like disempowered and not engaged but they don't know, kind of, what to do and eventually they will leave. But it doesn't mean they, like everyone just – I almost don't want it to come across that the generation is like ‘This is not working. It's not working. Right, I'm off.’

It's like that more, but there also is this phase where they'll just get more and more disengaged until they, as we'll probably touch on a moment, so they may quiet quit. So yeah, just wanted to bring that in.

Adam Lacey

Yeah, that's a super point. And we are at risk with all these conversations we're having of, like, generalising across such a big age group, as we've talked about, and obviously people's personal circumstances are different, so do take it with that lens and also we'll try our best to catch each other when we make statements like that as well.

Cool. I'd love to get on to something positive actually. And I wondered if you had any inspiring examples of companies that are successfully building cultures where Gen Z can really thrive?

Patrick Quinton-Smith

I'm happy to kick that off because I was part of a business that did this incredibly well. Sadly, they are no longer with us. RIP. It was Bulb Energy. So, Bulb Energy was the fastest growing startup in all of Europe and they were an energy company. They ended up having 1.3 million customers before they went bust during the energy, sort of, spike a few years ago and they're now owned by Octopus.

But they just had so many things right. Like they really built an incredible business and incredible culture and I absolutely loved it. Once I overcame my own challenges early in my career (which I've spoken about), I connected to what was really important there. And their mission was so clear for the business: make energy simpler, greener, cheaper.

Granted, it was focused on sustainability, which young people care about, but they just spoke about their mission all the time, like, all the time. It was in all their comms. It was every Friday meeting. We, like, had a chant about it and it was – I was so bought into it.

I absolutely loved it. But I think, like, that's what people want, is that sense of belonging. I loved it. So many people, young people, were so engaged in that organisation because, yeah, the mission, they were just – it was something they lived and breathed. It wasn't just something they said occasionally, it really was something.

They became B Corp. They were really committed and they demonstrated that through many of their actions. And then the values piece. They had such clearly defined values in the organisation. Like really clear values that were created, like, as a whole from the business. It was a consultative process where people shared the values and what they wanted to uphold.

And those values were actually part of the progression framework. You know, if you had seen not to meet some of their values, then you might not meet a progression. If they were clear examples. So, they really held those values, you know, firm. In the company meetings on Fridays, they had shout-outs to the person who embodied those values the most.

And they had a survey: they would say, you know, please nominate somebody who has demonstrated some of our values this week. And there was always shout-outs in front of the whole business. And so, they really made the mission and the values super clear. And, also, they gamified the progression within the organisation so well.

Young people want to feel like they're progressing and they have opportunities of learning and development. And between each promotion they had three levels. So, you'd have 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 2.1, 2.2, 2.3. And this was in a, say, customer service role. But each little level had clearly defined capabilities and sort of checkpoints to meet.

And so, and they had performance reviews every, or promotion review, every three months. So, you had the opportunity to get promoted every three months, which was incredibly engaging. So, you’re, like, ‘Well, I can actually earn.’ – and it told you the salary bands – ‘I could earn an extra, you know, whatever it was, a thousand pounds the next three months if I hit these things.’

And, you know, that happened a lot. So, people getting promoted all the time and it was fantastic. And finally, they just hired really well. They hired really capable, smart, you know, intrinsically driven people. So, yeah, all of that I just think created a really fantastic environment for young people.

Adam Lacey

But I guess the hiring links into the mission as well. And I just, I think that's a really important point actually. And the mission kind of flows down from the top but needs to be incorporated into all levels almost. And the fact that it was incorporated into the, you know, promotional bandings within different roles, part of your regular performance reviews, part of the weekly all hands, all that kind of stuff is a really – well, it screams a really strong mission-led business, but it's exactly what you've been talking about.

As in they're not just talking about their mission, they are living and breathing it and getting everybody in that organisation to live and breathe it as well. So, yeah, very smart.

Zavier Coyne

Yeah, I like the point you mentioned about hiring and to build on that further, I'll give a small example. Because, yeah, a lot of problems are downstream of hiring essentially as well. So, there's a company called Zappos and they would do these culture-fit interviews. So, of course they had interviews about their technical skills with managers, but then just normal employees would also become part of the interview process for a new onboarder, and would get to feel and have a say, in terms of, they feel like they'd fit into the culture, they feel like they'd contribute to, actually not creating like a machine – but more of an ecosystem of people that thrives.

And so, then they would kind of have a say in the recruitment process. So, actually, this is like maybe more extreme example even, but it shows how some companies really do – this isn't just like a word they say, it's built into the very fabric of how they hire, how they nurture, how they grow the organisation.

So, for this generation coming in, that's actually a really kind of an interesting example, I think, to look at of how you can really address and create cultures from the get-go and shows that the company Zappos was really interested in actually protecting it in a way and nurturing it and really being involved in the curation of how culture comes about.

Because if the peer group ended up saying ‘No, they don't fit the culture’, then regardless of the technical skill of that person, they weren't onboarded. So, really interesting to kind of look at that hiring process and how that culture, kind of, can be downstream from that.

Adam Lacey

Brilliant. So, let's move on to our next, I guess, challenge faced by a lot of managers, organisations. And it's a bit of a horrible one and it has been around for years but the term ‘quiet quitting’ has only probably appeared in like the last five years or so but it definitely highlights a big issue in a lot of organisations which is, you know, I guess people who are still there, they're in person, they may be in an office, they're doing the work that they need to do but they're doing it to the, kind of, minimum quality standard and they're doing it to, you know – getting away with what they can get away with type thing.

And it's a real issue for organisations and a real issue for managers. So, if you got any, I guess, any advice for managers or organisations on how to tackle this kind of stuff especially in the context of Gen Z and the expectations and things we've been talking about today.

Patrick Quinton-Smith

So the first thing, yeah, just to define quiet quitting again: it's really when someone has mentally quit; they've checked out, they've totally disengaged in what they're doing but they're staying in the organisation, they'll do just enough to not get fired so they can take their pay check and you know, sort of be comfortable, but they're not going to exert themselves, they're not going to take on additional stress or really try and thrive or go that extra mile.

And I think, firstly, a couple reasons why that happens is because a lot of those expectations or those needs in the business just aren't being met and often they might feel – and this applies to all generations; this isn't uniquely for young people, you know, I know lots of people non-Gen Z, quiet quit.

So, it's when, yeah, their needs aren't met and they've possibly pushed for them, they've tried to create change for what they want. It might be some of those hygiene factors like pay or benefits. It could be, you know, wanting more recognition and wanting more career advancement, more responsibility, whatever it is. And they've tried to get them and, if it's not there, they've kind of given up.

They're then like ‘Well what's the point? But I'm still getting paid so you know, I'm not going to take any additional stress.’ That's kind of where that can come from. How to address it, I think, I mean it really comes back – you kind of want to address it before it even happens.

You want to try to cut it off at its root and what we've talked about in terms of the type of cultures that young people want to be part of. You know, if you have a coaching culture and you are creating spaces where managers are actually openly asking what is on your mind and what you want in it, what they're struggling with and how they can help, then hopefully you should actually be trying to really understand what is going on with somebody and what they really want and need before they get to that point.

You're creating that space where they can, you know, be honest so that they don't get to the point of quiet quitting, or at least the manager knows about it. So, all the things that we said about how to create the environments that Gen Z want to be part of, I think that tackles this issue at the root.

But also, if you're, you know - coaching culture also contributes to those hygiene factors as well, which help people feel heard, valued, understood, etc.

Zavier Coyne

Like the notion of – one thing I want to pick up on further was asking for help. I think that's one of the most important things when we look at this generation and what we support Gen Z with doing is how can they step into asking for help more. Like having the kind of communicational skills, emotional intelligence, to come forward and ask for help.

That is so, so, so important. I can't overstate that that human skill and developing that with your young people is creating spaces for them to feel like they can go and ask for help actively. But also providing the resources, the training to help them develop those human skills is one of the main things which can influence quiet quitting in that way, so that they can speak up confidently, express those challenges.

Because, like Patrick said, like nipping it in the bud before it even kind of happens. It's like we have to almost empower young people with the skill set to address that within themselves. And we'll get into that in the next series and it'll be a really big point. But I just wanted to kind of mention like what that quiet quitting almost signals.

It kind of signals that from the Gen Z side, from this younger generation coming in, is that they're not really knowing how or when to ask for help. There’re expectations that aren't being met and, like I mentioned before – so the lack of belonging as well – maybe not feeling like they're growing in the organisation, so they’re just mentally checking out.

And with managers though, it kind of signals that from a managerial side, can managers actually tap more into their emotional intelligence, to be aware when someone is on their way to checking out? Not just once they have, like, can we catch it as it's happening? And that is really the skill of emotional intelligence and effective leadership in a way.

So that leadership, awareness. And just being connected with the team, like being connected as humans, you then start to feel when someone's checking out in any kind of relationship, you can feel that and then we can translate that into a workplace context if we have that empathy developed.

Adam Lacey

Great points, I think. Yeah, empathy, understanding, that openness that we've talked about a lot. Patrick mentioned a really good point around, you know, it might be expectations aren't being met, recognition isn't coming forward, there's not career advancement. All of those things are very – even if career advancement isn't possible and even if it's not possible to meet expectations because you know, as a manager you don't always have control over these things.

If you're able to communicate that openly, take on board the views of the team and they feel listened to and heard and they feel like, ‘Yes, it's not happened this time, but I have been listened to. It's been explained to me why something is happening in this way that I don't agree with. And although I still don't agree with it. I accept it.’ You know, I think the worst case is when things are kind of handed down or passed down without that context and without that explanation, without that why. Which is critical, I think to any conversation, especially critical to this generation that we're talking about at the moment.

So, so yeah, I like that. And that top tip for a manager, helping others ask for help, you know, training them in this situation, don't just sit there and, you know, not do anything. You have agency here, you have some control, you can make a difference or you can change this by asking for help, by communicating.

And yeah, like we've talked about a few times, it's definitely a two-way street. This isn't all on the manager, but sometimes if someone is brand new into the world of work, they need to be told that; they need to know that they have the power to ask for help. I think that is a big thing as well.

Patrick Quinton-Smith

Yeah, just on that. And I'm sure we'll mention this, or mentioned this other parts of the podcast, but managers listening to this, I really recommend listening to the other series, the Gen Z series, because we're saying it's a two-way street. You know, we're sort of speaking directly to managers and how to support them.

But we give so much advice and tips for young people and how to sort of come towards the managers. I just think really helpful for managers to give that a listen.

Adam Lacey

Brilliant. Right, let's talk a little bit about training because I think a manager's role is, you know, as a coach, as a guide, as a mentor in many cases, but also as a trainer. You know, these are often people coming into an organisation, they didn't have huge amounts of experience in the workplace simply because of their age.

They don't have the years behind them. And, actually, those first, I would say four or five years in full time work, can be some of the most transformative in terms of the information they bring, the information you collect and it can really shape your career. So, training and development is so, so important.

Well, it's critical at that time. So, I guess there's two questions here. First one is what are some of the mistakes that organisations or managers can avoid when designing and implementing training for Gen Z? And then, I guess on the flip side of that, is how can they do that right? You know, what can they do to develop training initiatives that do really engage?

So yeah, two sides to the same coin there. But feel free to answer either one first. But yeah, I'd love to get into training a bit.

Zavier Coyne

Yeah, it's a really important point, just the notion of training in general and I will touch on that kind of a – because you can look at it from an organisational perspective of what they can do with their initiatives, their strategies and also from what a manager can do.

And one thing that I want to mention that applies to both is one of the biggest pitfalls I would say – and we're going to almost sound like a broken record here – is neglecting the human skills.

Fundamentally that would be, I'd say, one of the biggest pitfalls that both organisations and managers can make. Focusing almost too much on the technical side and kind of neglecting the human side of those really foundational skills. When we think about young people coming into organisations, it's like how do they feel? And we talk about how they feel that they're growing, they feel like they're belonging, and if they're developing their human skills, that's a really great way of kind of nurturing both.

They feel like, ‘Okay, I kind of belong here because I'm going somewhere’ and you feel like you're growing at the same time. It helps to tackle both those things really well. So, that's just the first thing I want to say – the real importance of not neglecting human skills and, as a manager, incorporating that into your communications.

Like not always just checking into terms of how they're doing in their role technically but how they're doing, kind, of in the human development side of their whole character. And then organisations designing initiatives and support and training strategies that really help to boost these human skills for this generation.

Adam Lacey

What kind of, I guess, things specifically on that subject have you seen done really well, maybe with organisations you've worked with? You know, are these, are these like formal training programmes? Is it a mix of formal and informal? Are they bringing cohorts together to look at specific things? Are they doing skills sprints? What have you seen work?

And obviously every organisation is different etc, etc. But you know there will be some common themes we can draw on.

Zavier Coyne

Yeah, it links essentially to what we do and why we do it, which is we design those kind of programmes that address those human skills for both angles. So, it's how do you bridge with your initiatives both managers and young people? So, helping both sides develop the human skills, as we've spoken about in this series, and then we'll speak about in the other for Gen Z is those skills, those foundational skills being built.

We go into organisations to help support that and that does work. We've seen that work over time and it's why we continue to do it because we've seen how empowering young people with those skills to communicate – to bridge generational gaps – really helps to create cohesive workplace environments where they can all thrive together.

So, without saying any kind of client names, just by going into organisations recently just to talk about what we're doing and open up this conversation as a whole has really changed how managers approach this topic going ‘Okay, yeah the building empathy and how really we've incorporated coaching within that training’ is a really important point to mention. Like that's at the essence of it.

That's why the business is called the Gen Z Coach is because the importance of coaching and training two-way communication, not kind of lecture, top-down approaches to kind of training but more collaborative co-created, really helping people to tap into what actually is best for them rather than what is projected.

And this links to communicating why we're sharing what we're sharing as well helping young people understand the importance of these human skills in their whole career progression. Taking it outside of a kind of ‘I just need to do this to technically fulfil my role’ into ‘Wow, this feels personal. This isn't a one-size-fits-all all. This helps me tap into what are my capacities, what are my strengths.’

And you then help managers on the flip side to step out of controlling into coaching. Touching on what Patrick mentioned about creating that coaching culture. So, there's a lot there to unpack, but really to summarise, it's about how can you create training and coaching that kind of speaks to both, that bridges generational gaps. It speaks to both sides. We've seen that work really well.

Patrick Quinton-Smith

Yeah. And some organisations do that and they're, you know, you know, thriving. They've got amazing initiatives, but a lot of organisations maybe don't have the internal capabilities or know how to do that, to provide these human skills, to provide that coaching and put these programmes together. But the ones that do, you know, they do that incredibly well.

And yeah, just those human skills, as I've said, this is for young people. It's some of these things that have been lost through Covid, social media and smartphones. So just highlighting the importance of bringing those in to bridge those fundamental gaps.

Zavier Coyne

Yeah, I'd like just to kind of almost round the point off in a way that we mentioned that we really are, I guess, driving home here, of human skills – is this is also supported in research. There is a really old Harvard study in the Carnegie foundation. And lots gone into this – of the notion of when we look at job success.

I've spoken about this before on the podcast, but I'll say it again, just to clarify the importance, is that your job success is 85% down to your human skills and only 15% down to your technical skills. So fundamentally, the question that we have to ask is, do our training initiatives reflect that percentage weighting?

So, I kind of almost leave it on that note to, kind of, yeah, hopefully invite people to reflect on how they're developing their people.

Patrick Quinton-Smith

And yeah, just to summarise, you know, what we do and what's important for organisations to do internally is to, you know, there's human skills – have a clear and structured curriculum and programme that's going to deliver those skills. But over a long period, you know, it's the continuation of it. It's not a one and done thing, sort of tick box.

It's the ongoing journey of it. It kind of doesn't really end, you know, it might be refresher sessions, but it's ongoing and it doesn't stop. And there's support throughout. So that is, you know, how we believe you do this really well.

Adam Lacey

Fantastic. Okay, well, final question because we’re getting into the end of this episode, and the series in fact, what does the future of work look like with Gen Z? Anything big you want to end on there, guys?

Zavier Coyne

Yeah, it's such an exciting question. Like I think it's such an exciting question to ask and a nice way to finish this series, is, yeah looking at what the future of work looks like. And just say people that have listened to this series, it's clear that you're interested in that because the notion of what we're talking about – this generation coming through – they are the future of work, they're the future leaders of organisations.

But to touch on where, like, I guess, yeah, our feelings about the future on a high level – to touch on is as things get more and more technical, the importance of getting more and more human. Not just using tech for tech's sake because the future of work – companies will fall down because of that.

There's a little pothole that's getting larger and larger is the using tech for tech's sake. So the future of work will it like, ‘Okay, how can organisations create really human spaces?’ The skill set of decision making will be far more valuable than that of just knowing, of having knowledge to retain. It's actually that skill of how you apply knowledge because obviously, as we're seeing with AI developing and the way the world of tech is going, it's like, well, that's why these human skills are kind of future proof skills in a way.

And so, the future of work really looks at how can we kind create cultures, create organisations, create spaces, nurture people in a way that's more and more human. And just to kind of – a speculation from my side is the importance of being able to be present. That will become a skill that will become more and more valuable and it's so, so simple.

But in a world that is getting more and more distracted, more and more scattered, the ability to actually just be present with another person, be present with yourself, is going to become such a valuable skill in the future of work for sure.

Patrick Quinton-Smith

Yeah, 100%. The young people that are able to cultivate presence and cultivate decision making and also become better coaches and be more coach-like, they are the ones that will become the best leaders, I believe, and I really see that's where leadership's going and, therefore, that's where young people's futures are going. Is tapping into that space of, as I've said, being more human, being more coach-like and being more self-aware – that's really where we see the world going and what young people and managers need to tap into.

Zavier Coyne

And it’s really uncertain as well. Like there's so much that we don't know. Like if we just think about where things were 20 years ago to where they were 10 years ago to where they are now. The idea of trying to even remotely conceive whether be in 10, 20 years is, kind of, an incredible kind of thought experiment.

But one thing to mention is the notion of location. As kind of the importance of: can you create cultures that kind of transcend location? As people become more and more remote and teams become more scattered across countries, across the world, companies who can embed a learning culture and a coaching culture regardless of location will really thrive.

And where offices and spaces are then less focused on control. So, to control seeing how much time everyone's working and you know these, kind of, almost monitoring centres the offices were before and now these community spaces, these opportunities for connection of bringing people together and the kind of the companies who understand that and get on board with that as quickly as possible will be the ones who'll be able to navigate the uncertainty of the future the best.

Adam Lacey

And adapt to change I guess is a big thing we're talking about here. Change is coming at us ever faster. So, you know, developing these human skills helps guard against that. Developing a culture, how a positive culture of collaboration and community helps guard against that. Becoming more coach-like, self-aware, building decision making, cultivating presence, being present, being human.

All of these things, all of these things help organisations address these upcoming challenges. So brilliant guys, really enjoyed that. Thanks again. And if you're not listening to the rest of the series there's another four episodes to get stuck into, but we'll be back with another series on this where we're actually going to look at all of these types of things but from the point of view of Gen Z.

So, what can Gen Z do when they come into the workplace to make the most of the opportunities? What do they need to understand to adapt? And, yeah, we'll be diving into that in our next series and we hope you'll join us for that one.

1. What signals (either subtle or direct) might show a Gen Z employee is beginning to disengage or quietly quit?
2. How deliberately are you linking day-to-day responsibilities with your organisation’s broader purpose and do your Gen Z team members understand how their work contributes?

The Future of Work

Gen Z wants transparency. Clear expectations, open communication and visible development paths matter more than vague promises.

Belonging is essential. This generation looks for communities where they feel seen, included and able to be themselves.

Diversity must be active, not performative. Assess participation, influence and representation.

Being open about where your company is with diversity, inclusion or social impact builds trust.

Gen Z stays longer in companies that align with their values and contribute to a greater mission.

Coaching cultures unlock growth. Regular feedback, thoughtful questions and shared responsibility help young people thrive.

Recognition and progression must be visible. Gen Z responds well to regular reviews and clear growth milestones.

If they feel unappreciated or uninspired, Gen Z won’t necessarily wait around for things to change.

Championing good mental health is non-negotiable. Gen Z won’t sacrifice well-being.

Quiet quitting happens when people feel unheard. Open feedback loops and emotionally intelligent leadership can prevent disengagement.

Human skills are the future. Training should prioritise communication, empathy and decision making.

Presence is a superpower.

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