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Leading Gen Z – What Works and What Fails (download transcript)

Adam Lacey

Hello, and welcome to this series on unlocking Gen Z's potential. I’m Adam, co-founder of Assemble You, creators of the only learning library designed to be listened to.

This series is for people managers looking to support Gen Z in the workforce. Across five lessons, you’ll:

• Examine why Gen Z is different
• Discover how to tap into Gen Z’s strengths
• Analyse how to lead Gen Z
• Identify ways to coach Gen Z and
• Understand how to create a workplace where Gen Z thrives

We’ll debunk some common myths and ultimately support individuals in becoming confident future leaders.

I’m joined by Zavier Coyne and Patrick Quinton-Smith. Together, they run Gen Z Coach, which helps forward-thinking businesses unlock the potential of their young people through world-class coaching and training programmes.

Zavier is the world's youngest qualified intuitive psychology coach. He’s a TEDx speaker,  podcaster and entrepreneur. Patrick is a certified leadership trainer and ICF Professional Certified Coach with over 1,000 hours coaching over 200 young professionals.

Before we start, I’d just like to make clear, Gen Z is anyone born in the mid-nineties to the early 2010s.

So, Patrick, what are we talking about today?

Patrick Quinton-Smith

So, today we're talking about how to communicate and lead Gen Z. We're going to talk about what works and what fails when it comes to communicating and leading. So, it's really about how to connect with Gen Z effectively. I'm going to be talking about the communication that might erode trust and, really, it's about how to empower younger generation in the workplace rather than disempower.

This is also communication that transcends across generations - to talk about multi-generational communication – and, really, it's about sending, communicating two-way communication rather than one way communication.

Adam Lacey

Fantastic. Cool. So, let's start off with the kind of stupid question, if you like, or the obvious one: why is this so important? Zav, maybe give us a bit of insight here.

Zavier Coyne

Yeah, it's a great question. Well, kind of high level: As we saw in the last episode, the performance that comes out of this generation is really influenced by the way we communicate with them. It directly ties into the culture that's created in an organisation; it influences sustained motivation, it influences wellbeing.

These are all really underpinned by the way managers communicate and why this is kind of worth listening to for managers. I can touch too, which is kind of interesting when we look at how managers become managers in a way – they often don't become managers because of their leadership skills, they become managers because of what they were doing in their previous role and then getting promoted.

So, managers aren't necessarily taught how to communicate effectively, they're not necessarily taught how to lead. And, so, if we look at this through kind of an illustrative example of a pilot or a surgeon: say you get in a plane with a pilot and the pilot kind of just over the speaker goes, ‘So, this is kind of my first time doing this and we're just going to kind of see how it goes.’

You wouldn't feel great about that. And likewise with a surgeon. But when it comes to managers, we kind of let them go out to lead and communicate with these generations that are kind of coming through without the kind of skill set. So, they're kind of testing in real time. And yeah, it's really important that we look at effective communication.

Why it's crucial is managers really need to kind of be equipped with these skills and actively learn them. Especially when it comes to how to lead this generation specifically.

Adam Lacey

Yeah, super important. Reminds me of a kind of macabre joke from a surgeon who the patient says, ‘Oh, this is my first time in surgery.’ And the surgeon replies, ‘Yes, me too.’ Yeah, you wouldn't fly a plane without doing some training first. Why should you lead or manage without doing so is really important.

Cool. Let's start off with maybe a bit of a what not to do because I think this is an interesting place to start. And then we'll get into like, ‘All right, how do we do a good job on this?’

So, what are some of the biggest communication mistakes that leaders make, you know in relation to Gen Z in particular, and maybe how that kind of contributes to them losing trust?

Patrick Quinton-Smith

I think some of the biggest mistakes that managers will make is communicating in a one-way style. So, not asking questions of the other person, but basically telling people what to do. Telling people what to do and being very directive and authoritarian in their approach, but then empowering and curious. So often this can take the guys of, say, a more parental figure, you know, telling what to do. And those messages that are sent from one-way communication massively erode trust because what the messages being sent are that ‘I know best’ that ‘My ideas are better’, there isn't that trust there to put the onus on the other person.

So, high level, that is a big mistake, if that is the only way that a manager will communicate.

Zavier Coyne

Yeah, an example of that one-way would be like ‘Here's what to do’. Two-way would be like ‘How do you think we should approach this?’ And so, kind of the biggest mistake, to build on Patrick's point there, is that notion of a more authoritarian kind of communication.

And if we look, kind of, at the values of Gen Z, the importance of transparency, authenticity. So, not sugarcoating things is really important, especially when it comes to if we look at the notion of also explaining why; if we can explain why this is a really important, then it’s kind of a mistake if they don't explain why, more to the point here.

If we just kind of say this is what to do or how to do it without explaining why or offering kind of a collaborative, communicative environment - yeah, that's some big mistakes that managers can make for sure.

Patrick Quinton-Smith

Yeah, I just want to build on that because if young people are just told what to do, there's such a rejection of that. Because we've grown up with parents, you know, Gen X parents – Gen Z have parents of Gen X parents – who will ask them, you know, what or how they want to approach things, what they'd like for dinner, where do they want to go on holiday – they're actually asking questions of them.

But in the workplace that's actually not the leadership style. So, yeah, if there's no connection to the purpose of what they're being doing, they’re being told what to do – it's really disengaging.

Adam Lacey

That's a really good point. So, three things you mentioned there. So don't be, you know, no authoritarian, parental, just saying what to do, that top-down instructive thing, or not giving the context – all really important. I think if you do all these things, you risk actually locking the potential of that young person in the organisation because there may well be ideas, solutions, interesting thoughts on what to do.

And if you don't provide that context, you're never going to get them thinking in the way that you want them to think, which is independently, moving into kind of decision-making space where they feel good to make decisions in the future. And I think as a manager, as a millennial manager, as a Gen X manager, that authoritarian style – that kind of telling people what to do – is probably what that group of managers moans about the most.

This is purely my anecdotal experience, by the way. I don't have any stats to back this up, I'd just like to confirm that. But if I think about some of the conversations I've had over the years around management and leadership, a lot of them revolve around the fact that people just, you know, ‘Oh, I just want them to, you know, to crack on and work it out for themselves.’

That is a really kind of common wish. And, actually, what you guys are saying here is that some of the most common mistakes we see undermine that thing entirely because you're not giving them the information, you're not giving them the space and you're giving them the answer without letting them work it out.

Zavier Coyne

Yeah, it's a really good point. And it kind of links to the notion of giving someone a fish for teaching them how to fish. That's the way – almost like in one small illustration – would be the example of it. It's like are you teaching them to fish with your communication? Or are you just kind of handing them the fish and kind of…

It can require an initial period of investment of time to go and actually teach someone how to fish and really evolve your communication style to be more two-way, to be more collaborative. But, over time, the returns that organisations see by creating more what is known as self-determining leaders, that notion of self-determination theory, which is really how we can decide for ourselves what is important to us, how to make better decisions rather than constantly having to go back to the manager, say, ‘How would you do this?’

It’s like, ‘Okay, I've got the skill set. I've been starting to be empowered by my manager to figure this out for myself.’ So yeah, that's a really good illustration you made and I just wanted to build on that, Adam.

Patrick Quinton-Smith

It really comes to the point about responsibility. You know, where is the responsibility being placed? Is the responsibility being given or taken? And we mentioned this in previous episode, but if you are just telling a young person how to do something, what to do and then how to do it, who takes responsibility if that thing goes wrong? That's got to be the manager because the employee has had no autonomy over that. They've just been told what to do and they followed instructions and, yeah, there's no responsibility and you're not actually developing them as a leader. So, that's a big mistake.

And we can talk about two-way communication in a moment. But that's really two-way communication, and asking them how to do something is really how you get those people to take responsibility and develop them as leaders, and teaching them to fish - exactly what Zav said.

Zavier Coyne

Yeah, like you said, as leaders. And I think this is just a final point to mention on this is because this is a multi-generational piece. Just to mention now – like, this transcends anyone who's a leader – is the importance of asking for feedback of how it's landing with the team.

Like, ‘How was the way I handled this meeting? How’d that land with you?’ You know, starting to ask actively for that kind of reverse feedback of like, okay, a manager or a leader. The importance of being vulnerable there, you know, to actually go, ‘Actually, how did that land, guys? Like can you give me some feedback on that?’

And being open to that is really important and that transcends any generation. That's valuable for any leader and kind of the common – to link back to that question of what's the kind of common mistakes, communication mistakes – is not asking for direct feedback from the people that you're leading. I would say it's kind of universal as such.

Adam Lacey

Yeah, that's a top tip for any manager, isn't it? At any level. Ask for that feedback, even if it is excruciatingly awkward and difficult to do so – it will make you a better manager. Any other mistakes before we wrap up this section?

Patrick Quinton-Smith

Yeah, so I think a big thing to frame this under is terms of talking about one-way communication and authoritarian leadership style. I think it's important to take a step back and to look at the thoughts and assumptions that we have about young people and then the biggest mistakes is having negative assumptions about young people because our assumptions directly feeds the way that we communicate.

And this can be framed in the Douglas McGregor's Theory X and Theory Y. If anyone's familiar with that, I'll quickly explain it. But essentially the theory is that managers have assumptions about young people and that really influences the way that organisations run. And those assumptions split in to two very distinct and polar categories.

One is theory X assumptions, one is theory Y. And theory X assumptions are negative assumptions around that they can't be trusted, that they don't enjoy work, they lack creativity except when trying to circumvent manager rules. And they essentially, you know, need control. And I see that play out a lot in the workplace – of managers with younger people – with the assumptions that they're lazy, you know, they don't like working, that they're too sensitive, all these things.

So that then comes out in the communication that then comes up. They need to be told what to do, they need to, you know, be shown the way because they don't take initiative. And that negative mindset directly feeds into one-way communication. So, there's no teaching to fish because maybe they believe that they don't want to fish or that they can't fish, so they don't even bother to try. And yeah, it's, it's a massive mistake and something that we talk about a lot in our programmes.

Adam Lacey

It's really interesting. So just to, I guess, put a challenge in against that a little bit. What if, as a manager, you are facing somebody who, despite your best efforts in trying to teach, guide and coach, they're still not kind of making the decisions, they're still coming back to you for reassurance on everything.

Is that just a kind of, you know, a time and persistence thing? Should you just be patient, and have you kind of helped organisations with that type of thing in the past?

Patrick Quinton-Smith

Yeah, it’s a really good question. And I think regardless if they're not showing, you know, they might be showing some of the behaviours that you might not want to see, it's still important to maintain those positive theory wide beliefs and addressing it. And essentially the performance management – if they're not, you know, hitting objectives and they're not developing or demonstrating the behaviours needed – then that's where real time direct feedback is needed.

But it's coming from a place of love and care and positivity and belief in them, rather than a place of negativity and, you know, control and not believing them. And, ultimately, if that is happening over time and, as a manager, you know that you have really believed in them and cared for them and given them that direct feedback and guidance and support and they're still not changing and taking that feedback, then I think they potentially might not be right for the business and that you then follow, you know, procedures that you would essentially performance manage someone, and if that means them leaving the business, then that is probably the best thing for everybody.

So, it's just, it's more about how that – it’s still addressing poor behaviour, but it's having doing it in a positive way using two-way communication. Sometimes there's a time for being direct and telling people what to do. But often, yeah, it's the mistake of having those negative assumptions in those moments.

Zavier Coyne

Yeah. To build on that, it's the notion of, also – this is not just the manager's responsibility. That's why we've got the whole other podcast series which is looking at how to help young people develop the skills to thrive in kind of these roles. So, I appreciate right now we're looking through a managerial lens, but also like you say, some of it does fall in the managers, but also, it's a two-way thing.

We're all in this together. There's a great statistic by Gallup, I think they did a study – I want to say 2020 –  and it was that 70% of the variance in team engagement was determined solely by the manager. And that's kind of like how people engage, you know, being down to the manager.

But that's 70%. There's still 30% there that could be down to so many other factors, not just the way the manager leads and engages and communicates. So, it's not 100% responsibility of managers is one thing I kind of just wanted to touch on, but it's a really important point of, kind of, when we look at this more direct communication – sometimes this has a place.

Sometimes you just need to be a bit more direct, upfront, just kind of really saying ‘This is actually sometimes how to do it.’ If it's an emergency situation where you just need to get things through the line, that's really important. But then you can kind of go, ‘Okay, we've got an intense period where I might need to do one-way communication for this afternoon and then kind of once this is over the line I can revert back to a bit more two way.’

Kind of open up: ‘How did you find how we handled that situation together? Any questions? I know we run a bit of pressure.’ You know, opening the conversation back up. So, if it has to get constricted, as a manager you have more experience, you know, this needs to be done this way in this time, because of this time pressure then sometimes that can be really valid, and then it's like ‘Okay, how do you kind of defuse that?’

The kind of tension that could have been built up from that, after that, I think is really important to look at, so they have their time and place. But I would also say it's massively like a two-way thing. Like young people are needing to learn these human skills to effectively manage these behaviours that managers are after.

Adam Lacey

So, your mindset as a manager and how you carry those existing thoughts, feelings, beliefs into these conversations really matters, has a big impact. But, very importantly, everything we're talking about here is a two-way street and there's responsibility on both sides to kind of make this work. Which I think, yeah – really good points.

Great. Let's get into some of the stuff that managers should be doing. You know, what kind of communication do Gen Z expect? And then, I guess as part of that, how as a manager do we get the best out of Gen Z? So, a two-part question.

Patrick Quinton-Smith

Yeah, I mean I think we've already started touching on it. You know, what they expect and what they want is that really open, honest, transparent two-way dialogue. You know, I think touching on the transparent, honest and authentic piece – young people, you know, one of their values is authenticity and transparency and they do not want to be lied to.

They're amazing BS detectors. So, they can, yeah, they can tell when people are being fake and when there's not honesty and truth and that is a biggest turnoff. So, what they want is just to be told the truth, like no sugar coating as we've already said, and just being really real, being really human, being vulnerable, and asking for their feedback, asking for their input; just making them feel part of the conversation, making for part of the team. There's less of a divide of like ‘I'm the manager, you're the subordinate.’ It's like we are a team, we're a group and we're in this together.

Adam Lacey

Great. Be open, be honest, be transparent. And I think there's a really important point here in that as a manager, there's some things and some times in a business, in an organisation, where you can't say the whole truth, you know, for whatever reason, you are restricted by certain things that you cannot say and maybe cannot share.

But I always find in those situations, it's best to be honest that you can't share those things and explain some of the context behind why you can't share it, even if maybe that leads to more questions. But it then at least leads to some understanding in terms of, like, ‘Right, I can't share this right now. There's quite a few plates spinning. There's no decisions been made. Once it's been made, and this is the timeline, we'll be able to share as much as you can. This is what I can tell you right now, and I hope to be able to share the rest with you in the next week.’ That type of thing.

That goes a lot further than a ‘Oh, yeah, no, I can't. It's above your pay grade, sorry’, something like that, which is never well received. And, actually, people's minds instantly rush to the worst-case scenario when you say something like that as well. So, I think all you do by holding information back is create fear, anxiety and all the rest of it, which we know has a terrible impact on team morale, on culture, on all these things that we're trying really hard to build up as leaders and that are very delicately balanced in a lot of cases, and that can just be knocked over by a strong gust of wind coming from any kind of direction.

So. yeah, I think, yeah, you're right. I love that bit about open and honest and transparent. But I would add to it, when you can't be honest or when you can't tell them the full truth, tell them that and be honest about that.

Zavier Coyne

It's the notion of, like being transparent about when you can't be fully transparent. I mean, that's, like the notion of transparency. You can sometimes, as we're saying this – we're not necessarily suggesting everything is fully opened up to the world and like all of that – it's actually like, can you just be really honest with where you're at?

And it comes down to vulnerability as well. Like owning that you're trying in certain areas and owning where you can't share certain things is really important because otherwise it will be communicated but just not through your words. It'll be communicated in your body language, how you feel, and people pick up on that instead.

Adam Lacey

Let's tap into that a little bit because communication styles is one of the thing I think we should talk about. You know, you can communicate in many different ways: online, in person, body language, you know, nonverbal cues, the kind of tone of voice you use. Is there anything that you've experienced where, you know, it has worked particularly well with Gen Z in terms of how managers conduct themselves? Anything that again we should think about avoiding when it comes to communication styles? Things like that.

Zavier Coyne

In terms of like avoiding – kind of back to those one-way parental, authoritarian kind of communication styles being the ones that aren't working. But in terms of what style helps get the most out of this generation? We talked about, kind of, ‘one way v two way’ and ‘more authoritarian v empowering’, but if I was to like open it up, kind of from an almost less black-and-white kind of perspective and more into the reality of exactly where managers are at, and that we're living in this kind of fast-paced world and we're not always able to quickly tune into which style.

It’s the managers who are the most emotionally intelligent whose communication is the most appropriate for this generation. And what I mean by that is the managers who have had those emotional intelligence skills being built so that they can then adapt their communication style – kind of situational communication and leadership – it kind of taps into that.

And if we're looking at what communication is best for managers to get the most out of Gen Z, it's the managers who are most in tune with their self-awareness and the emotional intelligence of the other person they're communicating with, so that they can then kind of employ the most appropriate style for that specific situation, because there's no kind of blanket right or wrong as we're exploring.

So, to summarise, it's the managers who have built up their emotional intelligence skills the most which is the most effective communication style.

Adam Lacey

So, be adaptive to what's happening around you, your external environment, be adaptive or be alert and emotionally aware to the thoughts and feelings of the people working in your team. What's your view on asking questions and, I guess, also some of the softer, more pastoral stuff around building relationships, and I just mean getting to know the person or the people who are working for you.

Have you experienced any kind of expectations or disparities there as well?

Patrick Quinton-Smith

Yeah, I think the way I'd summarise it, and following up on what Zav said, to me it’s really about being coach-like and we talk about that a lot but it summarises so much of the communication that works. And there's a manager I had who just summed this up so well – he was amazingly coach-like in the workplace, but also outside the workplace.

I'll talk about coach-like in just a moment. But you talked about building those relationships. That was something that was so focused on, you know, going for walks with us, really just getting to know who we were as individuals, what our motivations were. And obviously this is obvious stuff to most managers – you know, really getting to know the team.

But maybe to some it might not be, but who they are and what really drives them is just, it's so important because by doing that you are naturally being coached, you're being curious, you're asking questions, you know; you're asking follow up questions and really trying to understand that person as a whole so that you can support them in the best way.

So yeah, being coach-like, being curious, asking really good questions and really listening and holding space with that person because the messages that are sent from holding space, being curious, really listening, you know they’re all the things we've talked about – helping them feel heard, valued, respected, understood. You know, these are critical factors of building blocks in motivation.

Zavier Coyne

Yeah. It's almost such an important point that for a little teaser that we’ll be getting into those coaching skills – that's really the foundation of the next episode, which is really exciting to continue explore, because it is such a big point.

Adam Lacey

Fabulous. Well, looking forward to that. So, moving us on – how do the way that managers communicate potentially improve retention rates? I think this is one of the big driving factors behind us doing this series, in fact, isn't it? How do we keep people in their roles, Gen Z, especially in their roles for longer? Keep them happier, keep them developing, help them become the next set of leaders?

And I believe most people, most managers, desperately want this. And, actually, this retention piece is super critical to that because if they leave after six months or a year, then they don't get the opportunity to take that journey with your organisation.

Zavier Coyne

Yeah, it's so true. If I had to kind of summarise it in two areas, I'd say: the importance of feeling like they belong, and feeling like they're growing. Those two are kind of massive for why, when we think about why we stay in an organisation – of course we have other factors like pay and stuff like that – but we're looking specifically how can managers’ communication improve retention rates with this generation. The way we communicate can really help people feel like they're growing.

And there was a study done by Deloitte in 2023 which is specifically looking at kind of a Gen Z and Millennial survey found that 41% of Gen Z say they left jobs due to a lack of feeling like they belong. And that's a really high percentage of people leaving jobs because they don't feel like they belong.

So, when we improve our communication styles, we help people feel like they belong and that we're seeing them beyond the employee. We're seeing them as an individual, as a human being. So, that's that first piece about feeling like they belong. And then the second is feel like you're growing. When managers ask you questions in a way that kind of opens up your way of thinking or kind of makes you look at things in a different way. And just by including you in different topics and different conversations, pushing the boundaries of what is possible for you, that notion of feeling like you're growing is really empowering for this generation. As Gen Z come into the workplace, when they're in these roles at the beginning of their career, they're so eager to learn.

They're so eager. Am I growing here fundamentally as a human being and kind of, if not, where can I grow? That's kind of one of the main questions I see amongst my kind of peer group, my friends is, ‘am I growing in what I'm doing? Because if I'm not, where will I be growing?’

And that's where the kind of lens, if you're not providing ample learning opportunities for young people in organisations, their gaze will start to slightly shift to looking at other areas – or roles or industries – where they feel like they could. There's so much more to that, but those are kind of the two areas I just wanted to firstly touch.

Adam Lacey

On belonging and growth. And just on a, I guess on a practical note, for managers who are hopefully listening, where have you seen that done well? The growth thing in particular. I feel like the belonging is the combination of complex factors that leaves this kind of almost intangible kind of feeling that, you know, ‘This is my place’, which I get by the way, and is kind of the magic that a lot of organisations are always trying to get to.

But the growth thing is maybe a bit more practical. You know, are you advising managers to include it in all of their regular conversations? Is there kind of a cadence that you recommend Or where have you seen good examples of this would be my other question.

Zavier Coyne

Yeah, it's a great question. It does get a bit more practical and a bit more, kind of, strategic in the way you communicate as such. So, for example, framing projects as skill-building opportunities; when a project comes through, framing this as – well, you can link it back to this generation's goals. For example, if you understand who's in your team, you understand what conversations you've had before, understand what they want to get out of the role, what they value, what their strengths are.

And then you directly tie the project that's coming through: ‘This will really help with your kind of presentation skills. I'm going to give you a chance to really take a lead on this’ and kind of showing that this will be an area where you can grow in that way, and kind of fuelling long-term development and you can tie that in and we'll talk about this kind of in the last episode a bit more.

But how you can tie L&D initiatives directly into that. So, for example, you do a storytelling workshop and then you tie it directly in next week going ‘Based on that storytelling workshop, we've now got a client where we've got a front-facing presentation that I'd like you to take charge of and you can directly translate the skills that you learned in that workshop into this presentation.’

So, it's kind of making learning always applicable. Making projects framed in a way of long-term development and, kind of, basically, as skill-building, human skill development opportunities – framing actual projects like that. Because they fundamentally are that, that is what happens when you work on a project, you work on anything like that.

So, kind of being honest and putting that at the forefront can really motivate this generation.

Patrick Quinton-Smith

Yeah, it's like how are you framing the work that they're doing? Because you know, we see things through our own lens and I think managers’ communication can help shift the lens of young people to see it as opportunities to learn and to grow. You know, if you know that someone in your team wants to use more of their creativity, ask the question, ‘If you knew that this upcoming project was an amazing opportunity for you to demonstrate your creativity and use more of it, how might you go about that?’ So, asking questions to just help them start to think about how they can apply some of the skills that they want to learn in development.

So, yeah, it focuses their mind and sees the angle of how it's actually going to benefit them rather than just ‘This is a project that you've got to do.’

Adam Lacey

Brilliant. I really like that. I'm glad I asked that question. So, this concept of framing is brilliant because it's completely free. It is something that's happening anyway and it is helping, as Patrick very eloquently put it, shift the lens of how somebody is viewing work that they're probably already doing. But, again, this loops back to some of the stuff about, you know, understanding the ‘why’ and the context behind what you're doing and how important that is, especially for Gen Z. Bring that forward to a great new opportunity, a project they're asked to, you know, maybe take the lead on it.

If you explain to them that this is an important part of their development and this is the kind of thing that we're looking for future leaders to take on. That is a way more exciting opportunity for me going into that than say, you know, someone just saying, ‘Oh, here's your next project to work on. You've done the last one, well done, here's the next one.’ You know, I think that's a really important and very small shift that makes a big difference to someone's consciousness or how someone is viewing that.

Patrick Quinton-Smith

Massively. My first coach did that so well. So, when I was really struggling at work and wanted to quit my first job, I had an external coach which the company paid for and that's really what he did. First, he just helped me understand me: know my strengths, my values, what I cared about, you know, my passion.

And he just slowly helped me connect the dots with the things I cared about to what was going on right in front of me in the business; helping me apply the frame of the things important to me over the work I was doing. And I immediately then – all these things I just did not see, I immediately saw and I very quickly became incredibly motivated within the organisation and it was just because I applied that frame.

So, you don't need an external coach to do that, when managers can learn to be a little bit more coach-like and ask the right questions.

Adam Lacey

Yeah, brilliant. That's a really, really good point to come out this. And I think the most effective managers will know how to communicate that in a positive way. Because, I mean, let's be honest, there are elements of everybody's job that just, you know, are just a bit rubbish and people don't necessarily always like. You can't always do the fun, sexy stuff, can you?

Do you know what I mean? You gotta – there’s that kind of background work that just needs to be done. And I think with all of it, it can be, it can definitely be framed in different ways. And as a manager it's your responsibility to, to highlight and support people going through that.

Cool. I want to move on to multi-generational communication, if that's all right? It's a term we've mentioned a couple of times. So, can I just ask, you know, what does it look like in practice? Because we're not just talking about older generations interacting with Gen Z here, are we? We’re talking about all the different generations in an organisation.

Zavier Coyne

Yeah, it links to that piece of – when we started, like one of the first episodes – of generational intelligence. Like how do we effectively understand, empathise and communicate across all age ranges? And so, multi-generational communication is looking at specifically that communication part. Once we've built on an understanding, we've built that empathy, how do we then go and employ certain ways of communication that nurture that?

So, we can kind of go through some kind of quick-fire, little tips – a bit like framing – like that being one, and if I link it back to – kind of just even to solidify it even clearer – just like starting with ‘why’: like when you explain, rather than going straight into the what and the how, it's kind of like: why this is important for the development of the person you're managing or leading? Why it matters to their longer-term growth or who it's impacting? Why is this project important? Who benefits? Is there someone within the organisation who this helps out? Is there a certain community? What's the impact?

Explaining that can really help with the kind of motivating, kind of across all generations. So, these are kind of quick-fire tips and we're looking at sometimes through the lens of a manager, a leader, to the people they're leading.

But at the same time, it's kind of cross generational and non-hierarchical, in terms of how beneficial these little quick-fire strategies can be.

Patrick Quinton-Smith

And then another quick-fire tip is very simply just, you know, when it comes to idea generation – if there's a project or anything in the organisation where ideas need to be generated – as a manager, you know, you've got your own ideas, but put the emphasis on the team, on your young team. And this is where just seeking information and asking for ideas and input is just so effective.

Helping them feel part of the journey even if the final decision isn't their idea, at least they felt that they've contributed. And whatever ideas they share is asking follow up – or acknowledging what they've said. You know, ‘Oh that's really interesting. Tell me more, what else?’ Because just by acknowledging what they've said and asking a bit more about it, you're showing that you are interested and that you value what they say. And then that gives you then space once you've learned more about it to potentially build on that with your own ideas and then seek feedback on your idea. ‘Tell me what you think now’ then it's a back and forth, it's a two-way conversation and part of that is really actually listening, really listening to what they say. You're not going into this with ‘I'm just going to ask what they say because I listened on a podcast and apparently that's good’.

You know, it's actually wanting to learn from them and it's really, as a manager, having that growth mindset at the same time and wanting to learn from others. You know, what can my team share with me, where you know the sum of the parts is greater than the whole? Is that the right way to say it?

I think you know what I'm trying to say that. So, yeah, really just listening. And other quick-fire strategies within listening to demonstrate you’re listening is summarising what someone says or sharing it back in your own words and testing that you understand what someone said: ‘Are you saying this or are you saying that?’

So just showing that you're listening and any follow-up question shows that you are really listening.

Zavier Coyne

Yeah, just that reflection – it can be so simple. Because we talk about listening and, like Patrick just mentioned, that summarising and it's just kind of – it sounds so simple. It sounds almost too simple; like if someone says something, if I then repeat some of it back that kind of shows that you’re listening.

It’s kind of a very simple concept but it really does signal to the other person subconsciously and consciously that you have heard what they're saying, that you've actively listened. So, it's not to be neglected that point. And in terms of another kind of quick-fire communication strategy is looking at micro feedback.

This does crop up a lot with Gen Z coming through but it applies kind of to all generations as well. What I mean by micro feedback isn't necessarily having like micro feedback reviews going like ‘Every kind of other day we're going to have this structured meeting to give you some micro feedback.’

It means after the meeting that maybe a young team member led, you go, ‘Really loved how you handled that. Like that came across really well. I think this could be some areas to develop here in the next project.’ You know, like just really small, kind of as you're going, keeping it ticking along, rather than these big events of like biannually or even monthly reviews that can feel quite intense.

It's as you're going, just knowing that communication is feedback. So, like as we go, just kind of being really conscious and intentional with that is a really important effective multi-generational communication tool that people can implement after any meeting, any project, any decision make – any form of decision making, you can give some feedback on.

So, it's just being aware of that and being able to share that is really important. And it links to one kind of thing – of delivering that feedback, kind of mental heuristic, that can be useful for people. It links to – I believe it was Warren Buffett who said it – but the notion of criticised generally and praised specifically. Meaning that if we're looking at something that's kind of gone wrong, you know, you can open up. Say, it can be easy for us to do this in this scenario and looking at that critique of what went wrong and giving that more constructive feedback, you can open up into the general theme of that problem. So, it's not an attack on that person's character, so they can then listen more and feel more open to that dialogue.

But then the praising – you can go really specifically, like ‘Really loved how you handled this, this and this. I can see how it's going to develop your character further into X, Y, Z.’ You know, you can get specific; so, critique generally, praise specifically and also doing that in a kind of micro feedback way.

Patrick Quinton-Smith

Yeah, and this is such an important point and linked to that is, you know, consistent appreciation and specific appreciation. Appreciation makes people feel good and if people feel good, they perform better. There's a lot of research behind that. Or most people, I would say, like being appreciated. Some people don't, but young people really do because young people are generally more anxious because of things of social media and growing up with smartphones.

As we've spoken before, they feel behind, they're feel a little bit more inadequate and, essentially, they just require more reassurance. And this is a bit of a shift for a lot of generations – I think we might have touched on this in a previous episode – other generations might feel like, ‘Well, why do we, you know, just need to praise them for doing the basics? Why do we need to tell them ‘well done’ for doing their job?’

I understand that perspective because you wouldn't have had that when you were in that position. But it's a really powerful tool, it's really powerful to daily appreciation because young people kind of forget they need that reassurance that they're doing the right thing and that can help build their confidence and just that certainty that they are doing things correctly.

So, it's one of the most effective tools to build motivation for young people and it's totally free. So, yeah, a lot of managers have a bit of resistance with that. But even if you could start to appreciate your team, you know, 10% more, what might that look like?

Adam Lacey

And I mean, don't forget you're dealing with people who are A) young here, but also B) are new to the world of work in a lot of cases. And school, university, college, whatever you do, doesn't, frankly, prepare you for the world of work. I'm a massive fan of, you know, 16 to 20 year olds working in the service industry, working in hospitality, working in these kind of roles, because I feel like it gives you a real, kind of, frontline experience into what working is like, and so that's great.

But then even if you've had a role like that, which a lot of people do, and that when they're growing up, you then go into like an office or a knowledge intensive environment and you're responsible for your time management. There's all these things and it's complete change again. And so, there's a lot going on and just a kind word to say, ‘You know what? You did that really well. Do more of that’ is incredibly helpful at that point in your career and way more helpful than, you know, you might say it as a manager quite flippantly, ‘Oh, you know, good job there.’ But I think if you can do that more intentionally to help guide and build that confidence up – that confidence piece is so important in the first few years of anyone's career.

Patrick Quinton-Smith

Yeah, massively. That point can't be overstated. And when that confidence is built, it means when there are more constructive things to share, they're feeling good about themselves and they're more open to taking it on. They won't take it as personally or it won't hurt them as much because their confidence is higher.

So yeah, really important point there.

Adam Lacey

What might we be doing wrong here without realising it, especially as managers?

Zavier Coyne

I'll whistle through some highlights and like key topics here. So, prioritising hard skills over soft skills is a big one. Ignoring mental health and neglecting its direct business impact – so not communicating in that area. Missing opportunities for growth by treating kind of L&D wellbeing as kind of tick boxes rather than actually real opportunities to get the most out of this generation.

Neglecting the individual within the generation. Of course, we're talking about multi-generational communication and specifically Gen Z, but kind of neglecting the person within that generation, or indeed kind of ignoring this topic and treating Gen Z like kind of millennials 2.0. Resisting that change and relying still on micromanaging and command and control communication.

And finally, as one point what might be wrong without realising it: is saying we have a mission but not actually, kind of, being on the mission. So, I think that's really important of like companies who say they have a mission. but are you on a mission? And that's felt within the fabric of the company.

So those are a few whistlestop tour, like a few things that we could be doing wrong without realising it and we can capitalise on to get the most out of this generation.

Patrick Quinton-Smith

Yeah, all really great points, Zav. And another mistake with effective communication is thinking you've communicated effectively when you've not. I'll give an example of that in my first job. You know, emails would be sent – you know, quite direct – emails like ‘This decision's been made in the organisation and it's affecting everybody and we've just made it.’

You know, it was sort of – you know, there was no explanation of the ‘why’ behind it and sometimes there then wasn't space for people to ask questions. So, there was just decisions being made or a new policy has been put in place, whatever it might be, and if there’s no context then you're thinking ‘why?’ You have so many questions and you're kind of just expected to get on with it.

And it breaks trust so much because there's no space to really ask those questions and then assumptions seep in and yet it just can be incredibly disengaging. But from an organisational perspective they're like ‘Right, we've communicated this decision via email’ and often people might not even see that email. So yeah, it's thinking you've communicated effectively when really not giving that space and starting with ‘why’.

Adam Lacey

It’s the treating really important things like a news bulletin or an announcement. You know you've got to – you've got to understand your people, but you've really got to understand what news or things you're delivering that are really important and do really require that two-way thing.

You know, if you're announcing ‘There's a software update to our product, it can now do these three things.’ Great, maybe that's a quick email but if, you know, if we're entering a change management process, people's jobs are at risk, all the rest of it – you know, that kind of thing –that 100% needs to be there, that two-way communication and everything in between as well.

Really. So, yeah, it's making sure you're judging that correctly.

Patrick Quinton-Smith

Yeah. Q and A sessions can be great for that. You know, just following up and giving people that space to answer questions and get answers.

Adam Lacey

Yeah, and it's really simple to do that and all it does is cost a little bit more time in terms of having to do that. But, again, it can save a lot of headache in the future.

So, final question on this for you, gents, because I think this is one that plagues managers up and down the – well, across the world – is this kind of fear of saying the wrong thing.

So, what do you recommend to managers who have a big fear of just messing up what they're saying to Gen Z? And, because of that, are often maybe paralysed and don't say anything or stick to their old ways of, you know, top-down, parental-style information rather than the conversational style that we've discussed today?

Zavier Coyne

Yeah, it's such a good point and it is something that I kind of – yeah, I feel for managers having to navigate that. It's a new world in that way. And how do you address that fear of saying the wrong thing when you're not even sure what the wrong thing kind of sometimes even is?

So, my first point there would be: it's important to understand that it's better to engage imperfectly than to disengage entirely. And so, it's better to be humble, not be kind of too over-cautious. So, my invitation there would be like, always share your intention. It comes down to what you were saying earlier about managers being vulnerable in that way and transparent as much as they can is, like, share your intention.

Communicating: ‘I might get this wrong, I'm learning but I'd love to get feedback on this.’ Make it open, show you're human. Like you don't have to get everything right here. But what can be really helpful is, if you share that you're trying – that's really important. So, asking questions, knowing that there's no shame. It's all just opportunities to connect deeper with the generation that you're talking with.

So, you can create those fail-safe spaces as well where it's a specific, kind of, almost Q and A space, like even more informally as well though, just to kind of be honest, sharing your intention. That's kind of the main points to share here: share your position, explain where you're at, why this is new for you, why it's difficult for you to understand.

Kind of help to build that cross-generational empathy and know that you can learn from this generation, that you really can learn from them, embodying that mindset, that growth mindset, as someone who might not be from Gen Z. Knowing that you can actually learn from this generation is really important as well because then it helps you to kind of bring forward that communication style that is more open.

And the final thing I'll say there is like taking ownership and own an apology if necessary. Like if you trip up or something just saying sorry, but like actually meaning it and knowing that it's okay to get it wrong. Like there's no, like I said, there's no shame.

But this generation really appreciates people being honest, authentic, transparent; like leaders sharing when they don't have all the information, sharing when they might get something wrong. Like having that vulnerability piece really helps people to connect and can also eradicate that fear of saying the wrong thing.

Patrick Quinton-Smith

I really loved what you said around sharing intention because it reminds me of the Carl Jung quote which is ‘We judge ourselves by our intentions, but others judge us by our behaviours’. And we may have good intentions, but if we say the wrong thing, then people judge us and it can go wrong.

But by actually sharing the intention, at least if we have said the wrong thing, people can understand where it's coming from and it mitigates the negative impact of maybe saying the wrong thing because people see where you're coming from. Yeah, I think, you know, we judge ourselves, we're intentional. People judge us by behaviours. And what you said really helps to support that.

Adam Lacey

And that's a great point to end this episode. So, if in doubt, I think show that you are human when communicating. Love that, guys. Thanks. And we'll be back soon with another episode from this series on Getting the Best out of Gen Z.

1. How often do you default to one-way, top-down communication and how might this be eroding trust with your Gen Z team members?
2. What assumptions do you hold about younger employees and how might those beliefs be shaping your communication and leadership style? Reflect on how your unconscious beliefs might influence your tone, expectations, and reactions.

Leading Gen Z

Authoritarian leadership that doesn’t make space for collaboration erodes trust.

Purpose drives engagement. Individuals need to understand the “why” behind tasks.

Autonomy builds accountability. Gen Z thrives when trusted to figure things out.

Transparency matters, even when full details can't be shared. Being honest about what you can’t say is better than being vague or secretive.

Emotional intelligence is a must. The most effective leaders read the room, adapt their tone, and tune into team dynamics.

Microfeedback keeps growth alive. Well-timed, specific comments make a bigger difference than quarterly reviews.

Confidence builds openness to criticism. The more secure individuals feel, the more they’ll welcome feedback that helps them improve.

Coach-like communication is key: ask questions, follow up, and create space for people to think out loud.

Demonstrate how tasks will help build the skills individuals care about. Show how business priorities align with Gen Z’s goals.

Gen Z stays when they feel seen and supported. Tone, body language, and presence all signal whether a leader is safe to trust and open up to.

Imperfection beats silence. Rather than avoid difficult conversations, it’s better to try, be transparent, make mistakes and rectify errors.

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