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Coaching Gen Z – Unlocking Multigenerational Potential (download transcript)

Adam Lacey

Hello, and welcome to this series on unlocking Gen Z's potential. I’m Adam, co-founder of Assemble You, creators of the only learning library designed to be listened to.

This series is for people managers looking to support Gen Z in the workforce. Across five lessons, you’ll:

• Examine why Gen Z is different
• Discover how to tap into Gen Z’s strengths
• Analyse how to lead Gen Z
• Identify ways to coach Gen Z and
• Understand how to create a workplace where Gen Z thrives

We’ll debunk some common myths and ultimately support individuals in becoming confident future leaders.

I’m joined by Zavier Coyne and Patrick Quinton-Smith. Together, they run Gen Z Coach, which helps forward-thinking businesses unlock the potential of their young people through world-class coaching and training programmes.

Zavier is the world's youngest qualified intuitive psychology coach. He’s a TEDx speaker,  podcaster and entrepreneur. Patrick is a certified leadership trainer and ICF Professional Certified Coach with over 1,000 hours coaching over 200 young professionals.

Before we start, I’d just like to make clear, Gen Z is anyone born in the mid-nineties to the early 2010s.

All right, so what are we talking about today?

Patrick Quinton-Smith

So, in this episode we're talking about coaching Gen Z and how to unlock multi-generational potential. And we're really going to be talking about coaching, why it's important, the benefits of it and the reason it's the most effective strategy to unlock the potential of young people. So, we're going to talk about how to become a bit more coach-like.

Adam Lacey

Very cool. And Zav, can you maybe start by just defining coaching for us? Give us an explanation of what we're talking about in the context of this episode.

Zavier Coyne

It's a great question to ask Adam, because when we see these words – coaching, training, consulting, mentoring – we all kind of have different interpretations of what these words mean. So, if we're looking at – for the context of what we're talking about specifically today – you can see that coaching is a partnership that helps people unlock their potential, helps them think for themselves and achieve meaningful growth, whether that's through self-discovery and kind of developed action plans as well.

So, that's kind of from a coaching perspective and we can kind of compare it a bit with mentoring – kind of gets likened to that a lot. So, you say that coaching is kind of like you're on the same page together, like you're exploring together. It's like a think partner. We kind of even put it into the context of like a race.

Like a coach is helping you run your race really well, whereas a mentor is kind of sharing how they ran their race and then hoping that kind of translates into ideas for how you might run yours. So that's kind of like some high-level ways we can look at coaching. And then also with mentoring, which it gets closely, closely mentioned with.

Adam Lacey

Let's go into what it actually means to be coach-like. So, what are the core elements we're looking for here? And I guess the context here is we're encouraging managers to be more coach-like in order to get the best out of the younger generation coming into the workforce. So, yeah, maybe let's start by going through some of these, these core requirements, if you like.

Zavier Coyne

It's a good question. Before we kind of go into that, just the importance of the terminology: because we're not saying that every manager needs to become a coach, but it's how can you adopt the skills of being coach-like, which is really important. So, it's just a subtle shift in language, but it helps us to understand that we can, kind of, take on these qualities of coaching, but we don't need to necessarily do all these qualifications, become a coach in that way.

So, there's a lot of different areas that we’ll now touch on related to that.

Patrick Quinton-Smith

So, there's so many things that come into this. The thing that immediately comes to my mind is, as a leader, having a bit of patience in a conversation and allowing the other person to speak. And this really comes into the concept of holding space. So often we have our own ideas and we want to fix the problem, we want to solve the problem for them because all of these ideas we want to demonstrate our knowledge and it comes from such a good intention.

As you notice, I'm talking a bit quicker because that's often the energy that people have when they're in a coaching conversation. But it's actually really important to slow down and actually create that physical space. Sometimes, I noticed when I was first managing, I was leaning in, they're like so engaged in the conversation.

It actually squashes the other person to really think. And coaching is really about helping people think better, improve the quality of their thinking. Because the quality of our actions is based on the quality of our thinking. Quality of thinking determines quality of our actions and therefore our results. So actually, you know, sitting back and creating that bit of a space and centring your breathing so that you, rather than rushing in to answer something they have or share your thoughts, you're actually having silence in the moment to create that environment for somebody to think.

Because just because somebody stopped talking doesn't mean they've stopped thinking. And so, you can actually see in somebody's face when they are still thinking. And it's actually allowing that to happen because often it's at the end of those thoughts that the real gold comes. And if you cut them off through their thinking, then you cut off that, you know, potentially a really fantastic answer that they've got. So that's one thing to start with.

Zavier Coyne

Yeah, no, I absolutely love that. And it's, it's the notion of being curious that would be – it’s a large part of it, when you're holding that space, when you're centred. Knowing that we can have these dialogues about how we do the kind of listening to understand rather than listening – that we're constantly listening to respond rather than listening to understand as such.

So, when we kind of develop that curiosity, we kind of can see, ‘Okay, there's some judgments that might be coming up for me; there's some ideas I want to share; there's things that I want to say; there's things I want to solve’. We’re problem fixers. What solutions can I offer rather than actually can I create a space for someone to come to that themselves?

And this, really – why it's so important with this generation and kind of with just managers becoming coach-like, is that it empowers ownership. So, we're looking – a lot of managers say that they want kind of their team to be more proactive, to be more engaged, take ownership of things. So, even just a subtle question, if we look at, for example, a managerial perspective might be like, ‘Here's your action plan. This is how we can do it.’

Whereas a coach might say, ‘What do you think your next move is?’ You know, it opens up this dialogue of this other person now realising, ‘Okay, I can take some ownership of this myself, how am I going to grow?’ And that's what coaching does.

It helps us shift not just from performance, but into growth as an entire topic. It kind of casts a net beyond being an employee into a whole person. So, being able to deeply listen is fundamental. Holding that supported space for reflection. But like basic principles of being present, holding space, asking your questions, listening, giving direct, caring, feedback when is appropriate.

Fundamentally, coaching is about being a thinking partner. You're really brainstorming with that person. You're not trying to – you're noticing the agenda that you might have as a manager and you're kind of holding that in awareness and then really being present in the space.

And this links to one thing that I really want to say in terms of coaching in general, because it's becoming more and more talked about and I want to share, that I really do feel it's an art, not a science. So that means it's a very creative act, I believe, to coach, to be in that space with another person, to be present, to kind of see what's going to unfold, to evolve. You don't know where it's going to go. The best you can do is be present.

And which is why frameworks can be useful, but not formulas. They can, you know, be used for those mental heuristics about how we might frame things, etc. But really, I see a lot in terms of – sometimes when we're looking at the industry of coaching, it can be so rigid, it can be kind of very black and white in points.

And the nature of coaching is to cater for the nuance of the person before you, to kind of have that unconditional positive regard with the person you're engaging with and then to kind of guide effectively from there. So, the notion that it's an art and not a science, I think is really important.

It has scientific backing behind it. But then when we get into that space, can we let go of everything we've kind of learned or think we should be doing and drop into being present and actually engaging with a real human connection.

Adam Lacey

Hold the space, be curious, listen, ask questions, be a thinking partner, think of it as an art, not science, and cater for the nuance of the person before you is what I wrote down there. I think that's a really nice, nice way of describing coaching. Anything to add, Patrick?

Patrick Quinton-Smith

Part of coaching is also the beliefs that you hold. Being more coach-like is believing that the person in front of you has the answers. They can find their own answers. They're not broken, they don't need fixing, they're a whole capable person. It's really believing in their potential.

And if that doesn't happen straight away, it's really, really trying to embody that. You know, if you wanted someone to believe in you, what would that be like, feel like? And that then naturally will ask more questions because you want them to get their own answers. You want to help unlock their potential.

So, it's believing in their potential and their capabilities I think is super, is super important. And I know we've talked about the importance of questions, but yeah, asking – you can ask really powerful questions that help build their awareness. You know, ‘What do you want? How can you approach this? What's important to you? What do you want out of this?’

And not asking ‘why?’ questions where possible because why can often sound quite accusatory. You know, ‘why did you do that?’ can sound like ‘what the eff are you doing? What the eff have you done?’ That's the message that can come across. So where possible translating any sort of ‘why’ question into ‘what’. So ‘Why did you do that?’could be ‘What was the reasons behind that?’ – just a quick example. And it makes it more open and less judgmental. So, it means we're less defensive when asking questions.

Adam Lacey

Top tip. Yeah, don't use why and believe in people's potential. Yeah, that comes back to the mindset, the kind of your mindset impacting their potential and their growth that we've talked about before is, doesn't it? And it's a really critical starting point because if you're not starting at that point, then I imagine the rest of the conversation – the rest of the relationship almost – will fall down because you can ask great questions, but if they're sort of tainted with a belief that they don't have the potential to do this, then they're always going to be – their answers are not going to kind of land in the same way, and you're not going to ask the follow-up question. So that starting point is really essential.

Zavier Coyne

Yeah, and to share – it's like a lot to do also with how we're saying those questions as well. Like we can formulate questions in a better way with language and that is really important. But what comes through is that the body language, the tone with which we say it is so, so important.

So, just wanted to almost – if we can build on that we've got great questions then be aware of how are we sharing them, then we've set up a real kind of recipe for success with our communication.

Adam Lacey

I used to work for someone a while ago who always used to start sentences with ‘Curious to know’ and every time they did that, I knew they were criticising me for some reason or they had something they were trying to trip me up on. And a) I came to really hate that phrase. But it wasn't necessarily the use of the word curious because the use of the word curious is quite an open and interesting and potentially a word that could make a difference, you know to develop people's curiosity etc. But it's the way in which it was said, it was always ‘curious as to why’ or ‘curious to know’.

And it's just like, okay, those first few words, I just thought ‘Okay, just tell me what the problem is.’ Do you know what I mean? Rather than dressing it up as a kind of curiosity which it really wasn't.

Zavier Coyne

Yeah, it's a really great point of, like, it links to that sugar coating in a way and just not getting down to – which is multi-generational. Like we all appreciate authentic transparent communication, and it leads me to, kind of, just kind of, touch on a high-level point here which is that people don't necessarily –

This is something that within an organisational context is starting to come appreciated a lot more is that people don't necessarily quit companies, they quit managers. And so that's a really important thing to look at. Like if I look at my own journey at points, I've had managers when I worked for a major consultancy that really tainted how my relationship felt with the entire company.

And, of course, there could have been so many other amazing managers within that firm but because of how I had certain experiences that influenced how I felt about the entire company. And so, when we talk about being coach-like, why it's so fundamentally important is because this can help managers have better relationships with their teams and teams have better relationships with their managers.

And that is linking directly to retention rates, to how we feel like we belong when we feel like we're growing. So, yeah, I just wanted to touch on that. This is kind of helping us look at the big picture of why this is important to be coach-like is because people don't necessarily quit companies, they quit managers. And this is about equipping managers to be more in tune with their team.

Patrick Quinton-Smith

Yeah, I love that. And, also, coaching helps develop the people that you're managing, helps them become leaders because you're helping them think for themselves rather than just telling them what to do. Right. That's often quicker. Absolutely. You can save time. Right. A lot of managers go, ‘I'm in a rush, I don’t have time for coaching.’

But if that happens, then you're not developing them, you're teaching them to take orders and you're not helping them take responsibility. Yeah, they're just following orders. And so, when you're not there and you're on holiday, the team is just sitting around waiting to be told what to do. Whereas if you're coaching, as a habit of being more coach-like, you're always asking them questions, making them think for themselves.

So, if you're not there or you leave the business, you actually have a team that is thinking for themselves and is able to come up with the answers for themselves and actually develop as leaders. So, over the long run, the impact to the business and to that individual is so much greater than it would be from just sort of sharing your advice.

Zavier Coyne

Yeah. And you just touched quickly on the time that managers like – we're not necessarily saying here, being coach like is about putting aside an hour to like coach every employee once a week. It's not about that. It's about developing this skill set that you can apply in micro ways. So, you can have coaching be applying these coach-like principles through just quickly after a meeting with five minutes, say, ‘Should we just go for a quick walk?’ Like if there's someone you want to speak with, ‘Let's go for a quick walk around the block’ or jumping on a quick coffee zoom call, ‘Let's have a cup of tea together’ or something. And it can be those moments where you kind of step into these coach-like principles. It doesn't have to be this big thing that you need to put aside time for; it can be in those kind of micro moments throughout and that's what starts to embed it into the culture.

Adam Lacey

So, are there any other benefits of coaching that we've not touched on yet?

Patrick Quinton-Smith

In terms of how it taps into motivation, it is incredibly powerful. A leadership model that can be applied to this is looking at Hertzberg’s Two-Factor Theory. For those that aren't familiar with it, it essentially splits different factors in an organisation that motivate individuals into something called hygiene factors and motivation factors. And hygiene factors are things that are necessary and have to be in place.

If they're not in place, performance will get worse and things like include, you know, pay, appropriate level status, working conditions, is that the right relationships there? Like if those things aren't there then people will leave and they might not even join a business if they're not there. But increasing those things won't actually boost performance.

What does really motivate and drive performance is the more intangible things like the growth and progression, level of appreciation, job interest; you know, feeling appreciated and valued. When those things are there whilst the hygiene factors are in place, that's when you can see motivation, you know, really soar and how often organisations make people feel those things.

And it's through two-way communication – which we spoke about before – or being more coach-like: asking questions, showing them that heard and understood. I won't go into it but all the things we've spoke about being coach-like, they directly harness those motivation factors. So, yeah, if you're not familiar with Hertzberg’s Two-Factor Theory, I recommend have giving it a quick Google.

So yeah, in essence, coaching is a really powerful way to increase motivation.

Zavier Coyne

The two theories are motivators, what kind of makes people love their jobs and then you've got hygiene factors what kind of prevents people from hating their jobs. So, it's kind of, I love that Patrick's explained it before as if the hygiene factors are like the rocket stand and then the motivators are the rocket itself.

So, it's kind of like you're building that kind of foundation through having great hygiene factors and then being coach-like is a way of bringing in that motivator factor really effectively.

Adam Lacey

Brilliant. And are there any personal examples you're able to share from coaching that you've had in organisation you've worked at?

Patrick Quinton-Smith

Yeah, I've actually got a really good example for this. It was a coach – I was early in my career; so, the context I, six months into my first job as a graduate, I was 22, just maybe turning 23 and I was really unhappy. I can't remember if I've told this story on this podcast before, but I was going to quit my job because it was so intense.

I didn't know what I wanted to do, wasn't enjoying my job and I just thought I was struggling so much – I just thought I just need to quit with no plan, I need a way out. And I found a coach externally, but the business paid for it and it was why I'm here today.

The benefits I got and the business received as a result are pretty insane really, when I think about it. Now, I was about to quit, I was very sure on that. And the coach, yeah – I just, I thought it was going to be – I never had coaching, I thought it'd be like a consultant. They’d, you know, ask me a couple questions and basically tell me what job I would go and do.

But it wasn't that, this person just through being coach-like and holding – they were a coach –being coach-like, holding space and put all the emphasis on me, asking me the questions to help me build the awareness and find my own answers was, you know – they guided me; of course, they challenged me and they supported me, which is what a great coach or someone coach-like does, but helped me overcome all the problems I was facing.

You know, if he just told me my problems, I may not have believed them. I had to come to the answers for myself. I had to. And when I and others come to answer on their own, they really stay for life and they learn embodied lessons. And through the coaching I went from, as I said, about to quit to being super engaged in the business.

Every week I was putting on my eNPS survey like 10 out of 10 of being engaged. I stayed in the business another three and a half years, improved retention for the business and in terms of performance and revenue increased that massively. Because when I stayed and I then started to lead lots of different teams around the business, which became very high performing because I started to learn how to coach because I saw the benefits of it and my team really loved that approach.

And I eventually started to lead a team of 240 people which collected revenue of 8.4 million pounds in a year's period. And all of that was because of a coach. Granted it was external, but the exact same principles can be applied into organisations. And that's really why we do what we do today, because of the power of coaching and what it can bring to organisations, but also the individuals. So, yeah, a passionate example there.

Adam Lacey

You know, you're doing the same role. Obviously, your role changed over time, but you're basically doing the same role, same company. None of those external factors have changed. The thing that had changed is just your perception of and how you kind of approach that role. And that was the mindset shift, that was the thing that changed rather than anything else.

Patrick Quinton-Smith

Yeah, exactly. It was building my self-awareness of myself and what I wanted and what was important. And then, as I said in a previous episode, I then I just had a new lens. I was seeing things from a different light and therefore I saw my whole job totally differently because I saw opportunities that in my mind didn't previously exist.

Adam Lacey

Very cool. So, I want to go into a bit of, you know, how this applies specifically to Gen Z and I guess my first question on this is, like, is coaching more effective for Gen Z versus other generations?

Zavier Coyne

Yeah, great question. And I think if we look at even just the solution of coaching in general, it’s, like, it's often very much applied to leadership C suite. So, the actual kind of modality of coaching – there's clearly buy in across organisations as to it being valuable, but it's not necessarily valued enough with people at the early stages of their career and it can be even more valuable at that stage to be coaching young people to help them be empowered in that way.

And then, actually, then when they get to those more senior levels, they've already discovered quite a few things out by that stage. So, the nature of, actually, with this generation specifically – Gen Z – why is coaching really kind of impactful with them, is we kind of look at their values and we kind of see how it really effectively kind of coincides.

So, if we look at the notion of the value of learning and growth: coaching is all about helping someone learn about themselves and grow into their potential and young people at the start of their careers have, like, kind of, this steeper learning curve, where if you can support them effectively on that, the potential and kind of almost ROI, the return of it is massive.

So, that's just the first thing to say on kind of coaching as a modality that is kind of really verified across organisations but it really does have a lot of benefit to this generation coming in.

Patrick Quinton-Smith

Yeah, massively. And why Gen Z specifically, why coaching benefits them, is like the alternative to that which we've kind of deemed as that one-way authoritarian telling style is just – it's so much more rejected by Gen Z than other generations. Other generations, sort of, maybe they're used to that, maybe they put up with it.

Gen Z have quite strong boundaries and when we look at those Hertzberg’s Two-Factor Theory, hygiene factors and the motivation factors, if those motivation factors aren't there, Gen Z young people today are much less tolerant of a lack of those than previous generations. They have stronger boundaries in what they need and expect from work in terms of, you know, being appreciated, having job interest, you know, and having being valued.

So yeah, they're more likely to leave if that's not there. So, in terms of how coaching can improve retention, because it will be tapping into those motivation factors which are more important for Gen Z to stay in an organisation than it might have been for previous generations.

Zavier Coyne

I’d like to build on that further because it's really interesting to look at specifically like Gen Z – why is this valuable for them? – and, like, tying into those values. We want to feel as a generation self-invested in the work we're doing rather than just, like, we're working for someone else. And so, coaching really helps people to see like ‘Okay, how am I involved in this?’

Brings me into the mix, as such; it helps empower the entire person, not just the employee. So, we kind of stretch that view and, kind of – that taps into the value they have of meaningful purpose driven work. And also coaching in the very way it's communicated is non-hierarchical and that's also something that this generation really values.

They value feeling like they're in it together with people in a team. It's not too transactional. Coaching isn't a transactional conversation. It's very transformational in its very nature and that helps to build that trust, because of their value, the values the generation have of, kind of, authenticity. They feel like they're in it with the actual person.

And to even build on another values: questioning the status quo. This generation questions the norm and so coaching helps them to have a space where they can continue to question in a workplace context that feels also collaborative with other team members. So yeah, the potential with specifically this generation is ginormous.

Adam Lacey

If you've not listened to it yet, we have a whole other episode on these values where we go into depth, on exactly all of these values. So, we will reference, and we do reference in these series, other episodes in them. So, if you are listening to this in isolation, just keep that in mind. And we've got loads of kind of in depth, about 45 minutes or so, of just looking at these values and motivations and things.

That's really good. And that makes a lot of sense when you put it in that context. One of the things we haven't talked about loads, but I really want to get into with the both of you, is this concept around challenging as a coach. So, we've talked about holding space, being curious, listening, active questioning, all this kind of stuff – being a great thinking partner – that is all super supportive, helping guide people almost to the right kind of space.

If we want people to accelerate in their career, to get better, to kind of sharpen their critical thinking – all these kind of super important human skills – we also need to challenge them and we do need to, you know, everybody needs a push, don't they, at some point? And so can you maybe just talk a little bit about how, as leaders, we can challenge, you know, Gen Z? Maybe we're coaching someone or someone in our team. How do we get that bit right?

Patrick Quinton-Smith

Yeah, the first thing that comes to my mind – well, actually firstly, just want to say it's such an important point, challenging, because we have 90% of the same thoughts we have today that we did yesterday. So, without somebody challenging our thoughts and trying to help us think differently, we're never really going to grow and learn.

You know, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing like, you know, overseeing no change, etc. So that challenge piece is such an important part of being coached, like lots of things that come into it and we're, you know, we can talk about feedback in a whole section, but if the concept of radical candour – there's an opportunity to be radically candid and give direct yet caring feedback that is such an important way to challenge. And being specific with the feedback, sharing your observations: what is it you see in that person that might help them, and not really holding back in a sense. As long as it said with love and some of those positive theory Y assumptions.

When we're looking at Douglas McGregor's theory X through Y, if it's said with these positive intentions and that's felt, you can say what you want in a sense. So, you can challenge them by helping them see their blind spots, helping them see the things that they might not see and asking them what they think, what their reflections are on what you said.

So, it's just saying things as you see it, you know; it's having no judgement behind that, but it's just showing your observation and sharing how you see it, and the impacts of it. Young people want that; as long as it's said with love and care, they want that direct feedback.

Zavier Coyne

Yeah. And with kind of challenges in general, like how to almost effectively communicate and design those challenges with young people is important to look at. So, co-create them. There's a notion that you can actually bring young people into the mix of like ‘This is a challenge that I'm looking at that I think could be great for you. What do you think about it? How does it resonate?’

And then looking at, kind of from a managerial perspective, how does this challenge tie into their long-term development goals? How does this actually empower them? How can we connect them with this challenge and kind of stretch them in a way that they also feel motivated when the challenge gets tough is really important. Because why that's important to co-create is we're more likely to stick to our own words sometimes than somebody else's.

So, if we've kind of co-created the challenge ourself or if we've kind of shared an idea and we're kind of talking about it and, kind of, almost convincing other people that it's a good idea, we feel more empowered than if someone said like, ‘do this for this’.

If we realise within ourselves ‘Okay, I'm going to do this because of this’, it registers deeper within us. And so that's really important to do. And I love that there's some questions you can kind ask in a way, to kind of get young people to test their ideas, to think critically.

So, when challenging young people, like we're – I love this kind of topic, because we're not – the notion of being coach-like and even just looking at this generation, it's, we're building empathy but also like ‘How can we create empathy that also can challenge and kind of progress?’ It's not about like coddling or just kind of putting things to a side and kind of being soft.

It's not that at all, when we're talking about this generation. That can sometimes come up in this conversation. So, it's important to know that we're actually – how can we empower young people? So, a small question like if you're testing, bouncing around ideas with a young person asking them ‘If you had to argue the opposite of the idea you've just shared, what would you say?’

You know, that then opens up their mind, gives them space to think in a different way and potentially challenge their own ideas to be a bit more critical; inviting them to, when they kind of are going through challenges with leaders, to actually bring not just passion but also evidence, bringing that passion and evidence together.

When they're moving through something, it makes them think critically but also to reflect on, ‘Okay, what's worked before? This challenge that I'm going through, that a manager's kind of given to me, what's kind of worked before here?’ Because then you're combining your passion and that innovative thinking about what you think could work with. ‘Okay, well what's kind of happened in the organisation before?’ you kind of find a happy medium of more innovative thinking that's also grounded in what actually works.

Patrick Quinton-Smith

Yeah, all really valuable points there, Zav. I think another just really effective way to challenge is just through questions. If someone's sharing an idea, you know, ‘Tell me how what that would look like in practice? What are the realities of that? You know, what are some of the pitfalls or what makes you think that?’

You can drill down. So, whatever answer somebody gives, you can maybe have a counterpoint rather than sharing a point. Asking questions to challenge their thinking to help maybe then get to some of those things; if you see cracks, asking questions to help them get to that answer themselves. So, in that way, you're challenging their thinking without being directive with one-way communication.

So, you can still have the same outcome just through asking questions.

Adam Lacey

Brilliant. So radical candour, specific feedback, ask for reflections, share with no judgement and then definitely leverage the power of direct but fair and firm questions to unpack what they're talking about or what they might be thinking. And I absolutely love, by the way, the opposite question. That's a great one.

‘How would, you know, how would you argue the opposite of what you just said?’ Asking for evidence to support it. Asking someone to explain how something would work in practice, an idea. But anything – what you get, what you're getting at – is anything that kind of deepens the conversation, gets them thinking of whatever they're talking about from a different point of view.

I mean all the things you're talking about here will help people develop empathy, help people develop critical thinking skills, help sharpen their thoughts around innovation. All these really important human skills that we're gonna need to challenge the status quo and move forward. And actually, talking about challenging the status quo, we're feeding into one of the, you know, one of the kind of values of Gen Z there as well.

So, you're kind of fuelling that fire as well with this line of questioning, which I really like. Fab. So next one. This, and this is one I think leaders will struggle with as well, and that's delivering feedback to Gen Z. We've maybe talked a bit about, you know, micro feedback in telling people when things are good, telling people, you know, when things need to improve.

But I feel like this is probably a kind of a fearful area for a lot of managers as well. And getting this right without demotivating somebody is really important. So, what advice do you give on delivering feedback when you're working with managers in particular?

Patrick Quinton-Smith

Yeah, so I've touched on it a minute ago, but the concept of radical candour, you know, really applies. It's more of a – I see it as more of a mindset towards feedback. And radical candour is, in essence, being really direct. So, you're being unambiguous in what you're saying. You're leaving sort of no grey areas in the behaviour that you've seen and the impact of it.

But it really is coming with care. And this is the important thing. If the care and that you're demonstrating the belief in them, then it won't land and it will just come across as too harsh. And the really important thing – the point I would like to make – if you're giving constructive feedback, is putting it in the context of how they can grow and get better, and trying to help young people learn and embody a growth mindset.

And a growth mindset, the definition of that, which is a term coined by American psychologist Carol Dweck, who wrote the book Mindset, is your ability. Basically, our talents are not fixed and it's our ability to learn and to grow in any domain through having feedback and trying again and purposeful practise. So, if you're giving direct feedback to somebody, you're sharing the situation, you know what happened, showing the specific behaviour that you've seen and what the impact is.

So, the SBI is a good framework, but it's showing that they can become much better at it. You know, they're not there yet and it's just really helping them see that it's part of a journey and that the only way to succeed is to have feedback and to fail. So, almost like embrace that, like, ‘Look, this is good that we're having this conversation because it's an opportunity for you to learn and grow. If we weren't having these conversations, there's no opportunity for you to develop.’

Zavier Coyne

For managers specifically as well, to learn how to deliver feedback to this generation or delivering feedback in general, it's kind of – it can be best, also, if we learn also how to ask for feedback. Because I'll share some other like more specific lessons and kind of takeaways in a moment, but in general, so that we're getting used to that situational feedback, how to empower ourselves as individual kind of in any situation.

If we understand what it's like to ask for feedback, we're kind of modelling that to our team. You know, we're showing that we're coachable. So, that's helping other people to feel that they can step into being coachable themselves. So, embodying it in reverse is kind of just something I wanted to mention because that can teach you a lot of lessons in real time that, regardless of what we say right now, will not be as valuable as what you experience in terms of how you receive feedback.

Those lessons then kind of dictate how you will then give it as well. So, I just wanted to mention that point firstly. But yeah, the notion of actually kind of more, some, maybe, practical snippets: not sugarcoating but not shaming, that can be a good mental heuristic. Like find that sweet spot in the middle and being specific, kind of sharing specific feedback.

Not just saying ‘Be better at this’, more like ‘Here's a way to approach this next time.’ I've mentioned before about connecting feedback to their goals. This is a really important point for that motivation and tapping to the value specifically of Gen Z. Like, tie it back to what they want to achieve, what they've already shared, not just what you want from them.

Because if you can actually tie it back to what they want, what they've shared before, they'll feel empowered. They feel that you've got their, you've got their best interests at heart in what you're sharing. So, you can frame it around the principle of more growth rather than flaws. Like ‘Here's what will kind of help you stretch to the next level’ rather than ‘This is where you've messed up.’

And, also, kind of giving feedback in real time. We've talked about that and it can be micro feedback, not this big event, but kind of when sharing it, notice that sometimes if we're sharing feedback too quickly, we can be a bit too emotional. Maybe we've not kind of processed things and that's important to have that self-awareness as a manager to go, ‘Okay, I need to just maybe take a breath, need to gather myself and then in like half an hour I'll go back and give that feedback’ rather than, kind of, straight after the call, want to share it and, kind of, maybe not refine your own communication or practised it enough to feel like you're able to do that effectively.

And also specifically, looking at addressing kind of specific actions rather than the entire character of the person in feedback. Because of Gen Z being the anxious generation and taking things personal, that being the struggle that a lot of managers share, of like ‘They're just not able to take feedback critically or they take it so personal.’

Well, there's stuff of course, that we address with Gen Z and working that generation to help support them to develop these human skills. But we're looking from a managerial communication side, we can address that specific action. So, for example, ‘In that presentation, this bit wasn't clear.’ It's very different to going, ‘Your communication skills just aren't good enough right now.’

There's very different kind of ways that someone will take that. And so that kind of relates to the way we communicate. Stepping into being coach-like, but also just building that generational intelligence when we deliver that feedback. So, there's a few snippets there as well.

Adam Lacey

I really liked your direct feedback model, Patrick. The SBI situation, behaviour and impact. So, when you're giving feedback, speak about those particular things, don't sugarcoat and don't shame. Be specific. We're talking actions here. We're not attacking character. And frame the feedback around growth and give that in real time. Fantastic. Great. So, final question and we'll wrap up with this one.

How can managers develop Gen Z into confident, capable future leaders?

Zavier Coyne

So, developing Gen Z into kind of confident, capable future leaders is such an important point and it's kind of what a lot of managers are looking at because it's your future pipeline of the entire organisation is this generation coming through. So how do you empower them with those leadership skills? A lot of it is down to developing human skills – that is really important.

We look at, kind of, the really old Harvard Study. I think I mentioned in previous episodes just about the importance of human skills for job succession and progression is that's 85% compared to technical skills, which is 15% of your job career success. So, the importance of human skills cannot be underestimated. Specifically turn that into leadership, coaching, decision making – helping people to make better decisions rather than just giving them tasks – that helps to empower them into leaders.

I really love the idea that we can focus on strengthening their strengths, like really supporting them to strengthen their strengths. We sometimes want to try and create people who can do everything, which is important to an extent, but often that ends up leading us to – we strengthen their weaknesses; we end up weakening their strengths – that classic saying.

So, that's really important to acknowledge when we're looking at leaders. Where can we support them to step into that power? Step into the things that make them who they are even more is really important.

Patrick Quinton-Smith

Yeah, I just want to build on that point about strengths and it's helping young people build that self-awareness of who they are and what value that they can bring. And having building that awareness of, say, what are their strengths is so powerful. That was what my coach helped me with and it was just so powerful because I knew what I wanted to do more of.

And often our strengths are the things that give us energy. And if we're doing more of the things we're good at and energise us, we're going to feel more confident because we’re better at what we do. So, our performance is going to be better and we're going to be happier. And it's a nice little fulfilling cycle.

So, it can really help build that confidence because when we're performing well, we're feeling good about ourselves. And just to build on my own point about building confidence, is like what, you know, we talked about the anxious generation – the reason that a lot of young people don't feel confident is because of the stories that they tell themselves and it's the dialogue and the thoughts that they have.

And a really effective tool, well towards helping them understand the thoughts they're having, or the assumptions they're having – it contributes them to lacking confidence in a specific thing. So, let's just say you've got somebody who thinks you have loads of potential, but they don't want to apply for this job opportunity, or they're interested in it but they don't want to.

Asking them a simple question like ‘What are you assuming that is stopping you from applying for this job?’ Or whatever the situation is, ‘What are you assuming?’ And then they might come up with, you know, ‘There's somebody better than me’, or, you know, ‘I don't have the qualifications’; whatever it is, there'll be a whole list of things and asking like, ‘Okay, well what is this biggest assumption that is holding me back?’

It might be that, you know, let's just say ‘I don't feel good enough’. And then it's asking them what the positive opposite of that belief is. You're getting them to flip the script, free frame their beliefs, ‘Okay, well, what if you knew that you were good enough? What if you knew that you were just as good as anybody else in this organisation, how would you feel about applying?’

Then the answer would most likely be, ‘Well, I'd feel more confident and I would apply.’ If we don't have beliefs that align with the actions we want to take, we won't take those actions. So, confidence really is – a lot of it is how what we tell it, what we're telling ourselves. So, a massive skill as a manager, is just to, you know, ask about that, ‘What do you tell? What are you thinking?’, getting them to write it down, what are the negative assumptions that you have and what are some of the positive opposite versions? What are the positive opposite of those beliefs?

And if we can start to move into, or help them move into that space of believing that then, yeah, they will be more confident. This was the case for me. My biggest limiting beliefs – I'm not good enough. It was the thing that's held me back most in my career, particularly in my early career, but when I recognised that? I was able to take ownership of it and realise that, you know, it was BS a lot of the time.

So, believing that I was capable and telling myself that I can do it was a huge unlock for me and it's a huge unlock for anyone, but particularly young people when they don't feel that way.

Zavier Coyne

Patrick's talked a lot about confidence there, which is obviously when you're looking at future leaders, that's a massive skill you want to develop, like that confidence. And so, creating kind of fail-safe environments to practise leadership is really important. For example, might be small meetings, projects, different initiatives, you know, where you can still maybe support them in the background but they really can start to get out there and develop that confidence.

And Patrick and I were actually fortunate to speak with Sean Conway yesterday. Really amazing British endurance athlete who's in some crazy things which I won't speak about on here because I could speak about for ages. A very inspiring guy and just, yeah, recommend checking him out, some of the amazing things he's done, including doing 105 Ironmans in a row in 105 days.

So, we asked him about what he would want young people to know and he mentioned about just, like, starting and he just – the notion of actual exposure, that really building resilience. There is so much we can do with our mindset, to build on Patrick's point of that. It's then stepping into okay, exposing ourselves to moments of leadership where it goes wrong, where it goes well.

That's really how we build that kind of embodied notion of leadership. It becomes cathartic. We learn how to bounce back quicker and that really comes from getting knocked down quite a few times that we then learn, okay, can get back up on my feet, dust myself off, go again. And that comes from just starting, just getting out there as a young person and leading and having that responsibility.

And that's where it comes down to, okay, managers can kind of give that responsibility sometimes to young people to step into that and start to get that exposure in those environments, which is really important. And to link back to that point of feedback as well. You know, we can connect feedback with the leadership potential of someone as well.

So, when we're giving feedback – mentioning, you know, how you see them evolving into a leader and how this links to that notion of leadership potential when you're delivering feedback is also really helpful.

And finally, also like, I guess finally, it depends, like, we could talk about this for ages! Clearly, Patrick and I going back-to-back on things is like, this is like a DJ mix but for Gen Z kind of strategy.

So, yeah, but another point – I'll back-to-back with myself on – is actually managers kind of stepping into themselves and showing like vulnerability in the fact that they don't necessarily know everything. They're leaders already, but they're acknowledging they're also still human. This can make Gen Z feel like, ‘Okay, I can be a leader and not, kind of, pretend that I've got all my kind of stuff together as such and kind of I need to know all the answers to become a leader. I can still ask questions. I can be vulnerable and still lead effectively.’

So, managers modelling that is really important, rather than painting this kind of idealistic version of leadership where you kind of got everything under wraps, is really important to be honest with what leadership actually looks like. And that can really help Gen Z step into those shoes even quicker.

Adam Lacey

Very cool. Let's, let's wrap it up there then, guys. That was some great points. From human skills to coaching decision making to building on strengths. I think that was a really interesting point. Rather than trying to fill gaps where there might be weaknesses, build on those strengths, to the point about confidence, you know, helping people reframe their beliefs and then create environments where they can actually practice being a leader.

And this doesn't mean putting them in charge of people straight away and hoping that they, you know, they swim. It means giving them a project where they're responsible for that team or they're leading on something and, yeah, and finally you bought a home with showing vulnerability as a manager and showing that actually all managers are just human beings after all. Just like them.

And so that's pretty important to note. Great. Thanks, both. We'll be back with another episode to cap off this management series, and we hope you join us for that one.

1. How often do you act as a ‘thinking partner’ versus single-handedly solve problems for your Gen Z team?
2.  How do your own assumptions about leadership (e.g., needing to have the answers, avoiding vulnerability) affect your ability to model the kind of leadership Gen Z wants to grow into?

Coaching Gen Z

People don’t quit companies, they quit managers.

Gen Z values non-hierarchical conversations. Coaching feels collaborative rather than transactional.

Coaching is about unlocking potential. It’s a partnership that helps people think for themselves and grow in ways that matter to them.

Managers don’t need to be certified coaches. Coach-like moments can happen in five-minute chats, walks, or after meetings.

Holding space means slowing down. Let people think, reflect and finish processing before you jump in.

Resist the urge to solve problems and instead ask questions that help people find solutions on their own.

Asking ‘why’ can sound accusatory. Reframe with ‘what’ or ‘how’ to make the conversation more open.

Check your tone. Even great questions fall flat if your delivery sounds sceptical or insincere.

Coaching means challenging others, unlocking new perspectives, and helping people think differently.

Feedback should be direct, caring and growth-focused. Don’t sugarcoat or shame, and always tie it to the person’s goals.

(download infographic)